[paulbaumgart]

They left out "size and wealth of domestic market" and "access to capital," which I suspect are the most important factors beyond a minimal level of market fairness.

It's really not self-evident that the vast majority of successful companies are started in the US?

[insuffi]

As proven time and time again, most popular does not mean "the best".(especially, considering how many people there are in the US compared to any EU nation. That'd certainly explain the "number of successful businesses".)

Do you think those people starting companies would do any worse, if we placed them in, say, Denmark?

EDIT:Or maybe Israel, which has the highest density of start ups worldwide? I'd be curious to see the per capita numbers of countries.

[paulbaumgart]

> Do you think those people starting companies would do any worse, if we placed them in, say, Denmark?

Yes. Facebook, Apple, Google, Tesla, etc. would never have happened in Denmark. I'm really glad my parents did the annoying work of immigrating to the SF Bay Area from Germany when I was a kid. Otherwise I would have wasted years of my life doing it myself.

Did you watch the Elon Musk interview posted here the other day? He said more-or-less the same thing: it was really obvious, growing up in South Africa, that California was the place to be to make things happen.

Edit: I don't know much about Israel. They seem to be doing a pretty good job, based on what little I do know. It doesn't sound like they're at SF Bay Area levels yet, but making progress: http://aleph.vc/the-israel-venture-capital-index/

[insuffi]

I don't see how you refuted my point. Have you tried anywhere else? Did Musk?

[mtrimpe]

I'm not sure Paul actually even meant that; but in my mind the difference is pretty simple:

The US is set up to achieve the maximum amount of runaway breakout successes at the expense of average of quality of life.

The EU is set up to achieve the maximum amount of reasonably sustainable business providing for a decent quality of life.

Each type of business is much easier to start on the respective continent.

[paulbaumgart]

That's a great point. Domestic market size and access to capital don't matter much for starting a business where the end-goal is single-digit millions in annual revenue. The USA is quite obviously (to me, at least) the best place to "do a startup" but there could well be better places to "start a median small business."

For the record, the discussion started with VKontakte, which is definitely not in the "median small business" category.

And let's not get started on the different possible definitions of "quality of life" ;)

[mtrimpe]

> there could well be better places to "start a median small business."

In Germany, which is the prime example of the EU model in that sense, there is even a word for that kind of business: Mittelstand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand)

> And let's not get started on the different possible definitions of "quality of life" ;)

Good point; the EU definition would probably be having a roof over your head and ample free time to enjoy the bread and games in good health ;)

[paulbaumgart]

This is obviously not a topic that can have a conclusive resolution. There are too many factors at play here. I believe the preponderance of evidence is in favor of starting a business in the USA, specifically in one of the major innovation hubs.

[insuffi]

I agree with you; tech hubs are extremely important, which is where Europe seems to be lagging behind.

I just think the reason they ARE lagging behind is because US is considered the default country to go for starting a business, without second thought.

EDIT:I should probably clarify - I meant the US is viewed as the best, hypothetically, not necessarily implying action.

[happyscrappy]

The idea that Europeans uproot their families and move to the US without a second thought is quite unlikely.

Edit: changed to unlikely.

[rwallace]

One could argue those two factors are very important if you want to take a shot at creating the next Google or Facebook (which an unusually high percentage of people here might aspire to) and less important if you're aiming for a lifestyle business (perhaps more typical).

[paulbaumgart]

Yeah, that seems to be the underlying mismatch in assumptions that started this debate in the first place. Glad we've figured that out :)

[tormeh]

I think "size and wealth of domestic market" and "access to capital" are the two most important ones as well. China and maybe India are going to test this hypothesis sometime within my life expectancy, I believe. Exciting times.