[randomflavor]

it's good that aa uses the 'god as you understand him' which most people just use that as meaning 'something outside yourself'. its a way to have a consciousness shift and perception change away from negative self talk and see reality as it is not as you interpret it. it can be religious for some, it can just be 'the great unknown' for others. really makes no difference. just that theres something other than your own mind telling you the answers in your head with great authority. its really just a mind trick/hack to get out of a thought loop that leads to harm.

[aestra]

>it's good that aa uses the 'god as you understand him' which most people just use that as meaning 'something outside yourself'.

Have you read the AA "big book?" If you have it is very clear it refers to the Judeo-Christian God with many quotes from the Bible. Its section on non-believers is completely offensive (to me). It basically says "accept god or die."

[randomflavor]

it does explicitly say god as you understand him - but i do know what you mean. its a shame that get's in the way for you tho, as there are alot of tools in there that if put to use - does provide alot of relief - alot more than drugs and alcohol provide.

[aestra]

>it does explicitly say god as you understand him

Sorta. Read here: http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm tell me it refers to any other God.

The "as you understand him" part is somewhat a cop-out.

Only monotheism here!!

>as there are alot of tools in there that if put to use - does provide alot of relief -

For some people, yes. For other people, it is offensive garbage.

[BinaryAcid]

> Its section on non-believers is completely offensive (to me). It basically says "accept god or die."

There is no section to non-believers. There is a chapter to agnostics.

[aestra]

Nope.

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt4.pdf

"if that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experi- ence will conquer. To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alter natives to face. But it isn’t so difficult. About half our original fellowship were of exactly that type. At first some of us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope we were not true alcoholics. But after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life —or else. Perhaps it is going to be that way with you. But cheer up, something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that you need not be disconcerted."

[BinaryAcid]

That's a paragraph not a 'section to unbelievers'. The chapter is titled "We Agnostics". Theism, agnosticism, and spirituality are not synonymous. It's sad that you find AA to be such a threat that you created an account exclusively to 'refute' the comments in this thread with vitriol and militant secularism.

[aestra]

> It's sad that you find AA to be such a threat that you created an account exclusively to 'refute' the comments in this thread with vitriol and militant secularism.

What are you talking about? My account is 254 days ago with 1658 karma.

I am not using "militant secularism", I am presenting AA as it is, a religious organization. People like to pretend it isn't one. AA can and does work for a lot of people. That is good! It also doesn't work for a lot of people. The only thing I object to is saying AA is a cure-all or saying AA is the only game in town when it comes to addiction.

Religion isn't the cure for everyone. That's all I am saying. Some people will get behind it and it works very well for them. Some people will find it vial. We are all different.