[mantrax3]

> "This is a standard developer response - I recall when Sinatra was a fresh kid on the block, and the same arguments people used against Rails"

And the more time passes, the more problems with Rails are being discovered that have to be altered in a non-BC way.

A library makes no assumptions. It's just there and you decide how to use it. In the right hands it's more powerful than a rigid framework.

A framework that tries to teach you how to do things is by definition a pair of training wheels. Not the best setup for competing in Tour De France.

The solution to incompetent developers isn't a bigger, more rigid framework. It's education and training.

[stcredzero]

The solution to incompetent developers isn't a bigger, more rigid framework. It's education and training.

In aerospace, it's understood that better training can be part of the solution, but often better instruments and interfaces and well designed automated tools can be lifesaving as well.

[mantrax3]

Of course, and in software development we call these instruments, interfaces and well designed automated tools libraries.

A framework in aerospace would be more akin to a pre-built airplane with a bunch of holes where you put seats, in-flight entertainment consoles and other auxiliary non-critical equipment (because remember, airplanes are scary and you were told you can't do it yourself). Then you paint it and stick your logo on it.

Which is all fine, if it does the job for you, but you're not designing the airplane, anymore than microwaving TV lunch is you cooking. And just like warming up TV lunch doesn't make your job title a "chef", I don't believe people relying on frameworks to do the hard thinking for them deserve the title "architect" or even "senior developer". Which, again, is all fine, unless you or your boss are kidding yourselves about it.

And then one day the military, say, realize they now have a bunch of useless "military jets" built on top of a "passenger airplane framework". And NASA's space mission based on that framework isn't going too well, either. Whoops. Turns out frameworks aren't one-size-fits-all.

In a nutshell, apps have to be architected by competent architects, using simple, modular, does-one-thing-well libraries. These people know how to achieve scalability and security taking the particular needs of the app at hand.

The presenter in that video said that making assumptions is dangerous. There's no greater assumption than the fact a framework is right for your app, without understanding what this framework does under the hood. And there's no type of component making more assumptions for your app than a framework. Rails calls it "opinionated". I call it: you're the framework's slave, not the other way around.

There's no way around it. I know when Rails came out the hype was so huge, that everyone believed they and their dog can write big complex web apps. Nope. The only result of the framework mentality is a bunch of people making beginner mistakes and getting hacked all over the web.

[stcredzero]

And then one day the military, say, realize they now have a bunch of useless "military jets" built on top of a "passenger airplane framework".

The He 111 started out as a civilian plane, then became a bomber. But to be fair, it was always a bomber masquerading as a civilian plane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_111

Which is all fine, if it does the job for you, but you're not designing the airplane, anymore than microwaving TV lunch is cooking.

I don't think this is a very good analogy at all, unless it comes to something like App Engine or Heroku, and I'm not sure even then.

I know when Rails came out the hype was so huge, that everyone believed they and their dog can write big complex web apps. Nope. The only result of that is a bunch of people making beginner mistakes and getting "pwned" all over the web.

The smart move would've been to see this coming, then intervene, thus cementing that big huge groundswell of mindshare with better informed members of the community as a result. The thing is, we programmers are more apt to act like old-time barnstormers and solemnly shake our heads at the pilot who stalled and crashed, than to invent stick shakers and automated stall warnings.