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by rjzzleep 4466 days ago
> It is funny to see the construction of Europe, which is arguably the first time in human history that different groups of people willingly tend towards a common political entity without external threat and blood spilled all over

you must have missed the news. because that is exactly the rhetoric the eu politicians keep using. [1] "if the euro fails there will be war". for the nitpickers amongst you with the choice of the mirror was the quickest google link. sarkozy has used the same rhetoric. i've watched merkel say that in the bundestag. if you know german watch that instead.

edit 2: can't find the whole speech, but here's parts of it [2]

a lot of greeks have seen the europe as the fourth german reich. so far any attempt at self determination of the population has had threats of economic sanctions in return. you may call that whatever you like, but if you risk starving your population, that's economic warfare.

> criticised from inside and outside by the likes of Soros, who will never understand that finance is a tool and not an end. I hope Merkel and other Eurocrats will firmly continue to not listen to his "well-intentioned free advices".

don't worry. merkel and the other eurocrats have proven to be immune to any kind of criticism or facts. merkels favorite answer to any of that sort is:

"the euro is alternative less".

to me the whole euro is a smart backdoor from the us. everything that the european population has protested against in the past is now getting written into law through laws that you can't even read (yeah, there's actually some opinions that they share). well you can, but usually either after the fact or because someone leaked the draft to the public.

my prediction is that for another 10-20 maybe even more years, people will become more and more miserable, giving even more rise to the extreme right, and at some point the whole thing will just blow up. but boy i can tell you i don't want to be here when it does.

conflict is the natural law of things. if you keep suppressing it for too long, the backlash will get even bigger. yes, i do mean that. suppressing conflicts until they're too big is imho what caused the first world war, and countless other unfinished/ongoing civil wars that became way more bloody than they should have been.

it's also what causes this ongoing discomfort in bigger organization structures where people know exactly that there's something wrong, but the company structure does not allow for open conflict. it's also precisely what made so many open source projects, and their forks successful.

that said the euro is still way more stable than that fiat usd. and soros probably went on shorting right after his interview, why people up vote that douche talking is beyond me.

[1] http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/europe-could-be-plunged...

[2] http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article10943242/Fuer-Merkel-best...

2 comments

Quoting the mirror is not helping your case.

From the article:

> Ms Merkel had even warned European countries could end up warring with each other if the euro collapses.

What Merkel actually said:

> She told the German parliament: “No one should think that a further half century of peace and prosperity is assured. If the euro fails, Europe will fail.”

Taking your news from the Mirror is a surefire hit to general cynicism and anti European rhetoric.

> a lot of greeks have seen the europe as the fourth german reich.

This is just inflammatory hyperbole, firstly because it is not backed up with any data, but also, which may be as anecdotal as what you say, a lot of Greeks are actually happy with the outside pressure to force changes to their public sector and governmental system.

With a higher unemployement rate than the US had at the peak of the Great Depression, I'd question your version of "a lot".
Without Europe the problems would be even greater. I traveled frequently to Greece during seventies, eighties and nineties, as well as recently. If I compare Greece from each one of these decades, the progress shown in each one of them is great. Despite all this crisis taking place now, Greeks still live much better than 10 something years ago. All of that because of the EU money floating around. And that's why the Greek majority still choose to stay in the Euro zone and play by the rules instead of parting on their own. They still choose Europe, because they see how Greece benefited from beeing a part of it, and that it was really Greeks themselves and their legally elected governments that are to blame.
> conflict is the natural law of things. if you keep suppressing it for too long, the backlash will get even bigger.

Yes, but we civilized humans, with the helps of centuries, went against nature, and decided we are no beasts. We instituted Justice, the Law, moral frameworks, and many other things that are human-made patches to Nature.

Do you think it is in vain?

If you had a disabled kid at arm's length today, would you propose we avoid supressing the law of nature for too long, and let natural selection do its work? (Which results in the quick death or starvation of the disabled and the weaks, FYI).

Current events would indicate that the world has not changed as much in the last 20 years as you would seem to portend.

I think that the inherit youth of the readership here (mind you, I count myself as part of it) may blind us somewhat to the fragility of the relative peaceful period we're experiencing around the world.