[patja]

I know this is completely tangential, but I am hoping someone can enlighten me. What's the best way to think about or explain the prevalence of grammatical errors in the Indian English-language press?

Is it because Indian English is its own distinct dialect or variation with different rules, similar to differences between American and British English?

Is it because English is fundamentally a lingua franca in India where nobody is expected to really master the grammar, including the press?

Is it because the press in India doesn't consider it important? I know in my local press in the US I've seen many more typographical and grammatical errors creep in since newspapers went into decline a few years ago.

Or is there something else explaining it which I have not imagined?

[fzltrp]

Isn't there also the global decline of english quality because of it being broadly used on internet by non native speakers? Many people (including me) get influenced by what they read on the net, to the point of accepting some of the strange forms you describe further down. There's also a global lack of proofreading all across the web, people editing content through web interfaces, on devices not supporting even simple spellchecking. English on the multicultural web is a strange melting pot of english forms and foreign ones being shoehorned in english. How much is (the)[1] american english influenced by spanish for instance, given the growing incidence of the spanish speaking population for the last few decades?

[1] Here I'm not even sure if I need to use "the" there. In my native language I would have to use it, but isn't the expression "american english" specific enough to avoid the need of it?

[gphilip]

If I may ask: Did you find such errors in the linked article? Is this what prompted your question?

"The Hindu" (linked in the post) is one newspaper which takes these things seriously. They even have an "ombudsman" of sorts (whom they call the "Reader's Editor") and they encourage readers to write in to this person pointing out all sorts of mistakes, including grammatical [1].

Constraints of the printed page would also explain some of the "different" language which one finds in newspapers.

[1] http://www.thehindu.com/navigation/?type=static&page=contact

[patja]

I did find some errors in the article, albeit many of them were in the quotes from government communications. My question was prompted by this as well as the experience I've had reading newspapers and magazines in India during visits I've made. The tone and language used in the Indian press is often quite striking when compared to other English language press.

Many of the errors were in the quotes, but there are some in the article itself. Some of the errors that stood out to me were simply the omission of the word "the", for example

"With the Microsoft Corporation deciding to stop technical assistance for Windows XP operating system next month, the Tamil Nadu government has advised all its departments to install free open source software BOSS Linux."

Just as the author uses "the" in "the Microsoft Corporation" I expect to see "the Windows XP operating system" and "the open source software BOSS Linux"

Here is another:

"many of them continued to Windows XP use as the primary operating system"

Sentences like this one stand out as well:

"The prompt for the present advisory is the Microsoft decision as a result of which security updates or technical support for Windows XP operating system would not be discontinued after April 8."

[samscrazy]

The article was just poorly proofread, that's all. The Hindu should have better editorial standards than this. p.s. I'm Indian, and I don't think any claim that this article represents 'Indian English' -- I'm not even sure what that means -- makes sense.

[esdailycom]

That sentence is indeed grammatically correct.

[bct]

There's a whole Wikipedia article on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English

[patja]

Thanks, I read that article. Do you think Indian English is strictly colloquial similar to the dialects of English we have in the US? Or does it have its own accepted grammar enforced by proofreaders and copy editors?

For example African American Vernacular (aka ebonics) and Southern American English both have their own Wikipedia pages as well, but you would never find the Washington Post or New York Times using them in an article.

[bunderbunder]

> Thanks, I read that article. Do you think Indian English is strictly colloquial similar to the dialects of English we have in the US? Or does it have its own accepted grammar enforced by proofreaders and copy editors?

I'd suggest that's a distinction without a difference. Or to be more precise, it's a distinction whose difference - the level of official ossification built up around the dialect - isn't really relevant to the question because it has more to do with external factors, and little to do with the language's actual developmental status.

For example, American and British English have crossed the boundary that you propose despite being so similar that native speakers are often hesitant to even regard them as different dialects. But they do have separate rulebooks, because at some point in the past few centuries Americans of high social rank decided that England's culture was no longer the ideal to which they should continue to aspire.

On the other hand, take Haitian Creole and French, which are so different as to not really even be mutually intelligible. But up until very recently Creole did not have an official grammar (or even spelling) enforced by proofreaders and copy editors. How come? Well, Creole's spoken by poor people, and French is spoken by rich people. Rich people set up the social institutions you propose, and for a long time they had a strong interest in maintaining French as the only official dialect.

The example is extreme, but I hope it does illustrate that there are actually two different continua at play here, and while they may be correlated they aren't closely tied together.