[sfphotoarts]

I've never been there but isn't that rather a sweeping statement? I thought Canada was pretty big, isn't like me saying in CA many of our cafes...?

Sounds like a good reason to move to SF. Any coffee shop that limits or bans internet usage will quickly loose trade to those that embrace it. Wifi is like having a bathroom, its just part of a coffee shop.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy, the coffee shops need to factor the price into their drinks, people are willing to pay for the things they need, just like the cost of cleaning the bathrooms is factored in. I realize every time I spend nearly $4 for a drink that probably costs under 50c to make that I'm subsidizing the experience.

[rdouble]

Sounds like a good reason to move to SF

Many of the coffee shops in SF have already taken steps to limit laptop usage. Ritual removed all the power plugs. Four Barrel purposely does not have wifi. Same with the newer Blue Bottle in Mint Plaza. Certain cafes like Sugarlump and that one in Bernal which I forgot the name have very bad wifi that they do not fix, on purpose, to limit the number of laptop users. Mami Tobi's in Hayes Valley also does not have wifi, on purpose.

All the coffee shops in the Inner Richmond charge for Wifi, except for Martha Bros, which doesn't have any reasonable seating.

Reverie in Cole Valley removed the wifi years ago. Oddly enough the wifi removal was initiated by Craig Newmark.

Unfortunately in cities like SF or "college towns" the free wifi in cafes is severely abused. People will buy the cheapest cup of coffee and then sit there for 8 hours. When I lived in Cambridge, it was impossible to sit at the 1369 coffee shop at any time during the day because the seating was completely taken up by laptop lurkers. They ended up moving to paid wifi to fix the situation. Ritual in SF is crowded enough even with no power plugs. When they had the power plugs, the laptop usage there was ridiculous.

At this point in time the only draw of many of the coffee shops with wifi in SF is actually the wifi itself. For instance, Mission Creek Cafe has awful coffee, food and service. The only reason anyone goes there is because there are power outlets and wifi.

Any coffee shop that limits or bans internet usage will quickly loose trade to those that embrace it

Coffee shops lose money on heavy wifi users. Laptop lurkers are usually students and freelancers - people who take up space and don't spend much money. Coffee shops make money by... selling coffee. The coffee shop that has done the best financially in San Francisco is Blue Bottle, which not only didn't have wifi, it didn't have a physical space. It was just a kiosk underneath a garage door in an alley. Yet, it consistently has 20 people lined up.

[sfphotoarts]

While some of what you say is true, Ritual did indeed cover their power outlets because there were servers running whole startups there, much of the rest is not.

It's pointless getting into each point, like the obvious error about Reverie. Do you really think Craig asked them to remove the WiFi? Just because he's there a lot? And besides, they do indeed have free wifi. As do many places in the Inner Richmond.

And where did you get the idea that Blue Bottle is the most financially successful coffee shop in SF? Their kiosk in Hayes Valley is definitely popular and has a line of 20 people most weekends, but that's a function of the fact that they are trendy with the cycling community and how long they take to make the coffee. If they were half as fast any other coffee shop they'd not have those lines.

[rdouble]

I feel like you're trolling me because I called you out regarding your comments about the Lower Haight filled with beautiful women. I'm not sure what points of mine need to be addressed. However, I did respond - good show. You win.

I've thought about these issues and have decided you are right. Only Miami and Milan rival the Lower Haight when it comes to the likelihood of running into a beautiful woman. Cafe Reverie and most of the Inner Richmond are indeed WiFi "hot spots." A good walking tour of SF would include a stroll up Haight Street starting at the Fillmore. Walk slowly while immersing yourself in the rare natural beauty of your surroundings. Take your time. It's unlikely you will make it up the hill without being approached by a half dozen startlingly gorgeous people, but once you do, head over to Cole Valley to recharge your spirits and check your email in the courtyard at Reverie.

[3pt14159]

Yeah it is sweeping. Tim Hortons has the same sign in every one I've ever been in.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/Tim_stores_wik...

[sfphotoarts]

ok, that's one place...