[jnbiche]

For the whole fingerprint, photo, ID, social security, etc. dance, let's place the blame squarely on the proper shoulders here: the U.S. government. No sane business would demand these things voluntarily. Some would probably even avoid collecting them if the only penalty were civil (i.e., fines).

But anyone who fails to collect all this information while engaging in money transmission, as is the case with a Bitcoin ATM, puts themself at risk of SWAT raids and long prison sentences.

I'm also seeing that some of the same people who were mocking Bitcoin businesses before for their failure to comply with regulations _now_ are mocking Bitcoin businesses because complying with these regulations takes a really long time and is onerous. In this regard, I really have no comment beyond just pointing it out.

[gnoway]

I agree with most of your comment, but I'd like to point out that I have never in my life had to give up my fingerprints to a bank for anything. I am comfortable asserting that it is uncommon anywhere in the US to require fingerprints to have a bank account and use an ATM.

Is this required for foreign currency exchange? Because that's all I think this machine is really doing.

[jnbiche]

The fingerprints are only because that's the only way to prove with a high level of confidence that the same person isn't repeatedly visiting the same ATM using different (faked) identities. This has been a big concern of the lawyers, FinCEN, and LE.

The bank doesn't have to do that because a human being can be reasonably confident that he/she isn't repeatedly serving the same person using different identities.

Also, note that the federal government has asserted that Bitcoin doesn't fall under the same laws as foreign exchanges, but rather as banks (see FinCEN's first guidance document on virtual currencies). A court could rule against this interpretation, but it's pretty unlikely.

EDIT: I should add there's a lot of grey area here as to what constitutes proper KYC procedures in this instance. I personally think a simple photograph would probably satisfy's FinCEN's concerns, but I've decided not to operate this kind of device, so it's not my own ass that's on the line. I can certainly sympathize with anyone who wants to be extra careful here since federal prosecutors and agents have been so zealous in this area.

[gnoway]

I guess it should be obvious that they fingerprint scan for each use of the terminal. This wasn't made clear in the article.

[bduerst]

I am curious too as to how this is the U.S. Government's fault.

To be a money transmitter, it requires that you have a license, and it sounds like Robocoin is trying to mitigate their risk (e.g. losing their license and going out of business) by being able to prove who you are, in case they become party to illegal activity.

[jnbiche]

The strict KYC/AML laws are all federal laws (many stemming from the PATRIOT act).

State money transmission laws have traditionally been oriented toward consumer protection and not toward prosecuting money laundering (and so they traditionally didn't require any IDs or other proof of identification from anyone except the business owners).

[bduerst]

But how does that apply here? You specifically said:

> For the whole fingerprint, photo, ID, social security, etc. dance, let's place the blame squarely on the proper shoulders here: the U.S. government.

I don't have to take a photo, give social security, or scan a hand print when I exchange foreign currency with a money transmitter...

[jnbiche]

>I don't have to take a photo, give social security, or scan a hand print when I exchange foreign currency with a money transmitter...

1. FinCEN has declared that a Bitcoin exchange (such as this ATM) is not subject to the same laws as foreign exchanges, but rather is a money transmitter, and thus subject to much stricter regulation (such as identification required starting at $0 instead of $1000).

2. When was the last time you exchanged foreign money in the U.S.? When I last exchanged foreign currency in the U.S. (in the past few years), I needed to provide a photo ID and my social security no. I believe this is strictly required only when you exchange over $1000, but many exchanges require them for all transactions.

3. Note that when you provide a photo ID, the end result is the same as if they had taken a photograph on the spot (your photo is copied and filed).

[bduerst]

That makes more sense. Thanks.

It has been two years since I was last at a foreign currency exchange here, and things could have changed since then as well.

[ianhawes]

My understanding is that these requirements are 100% due to the PATRIOT Act.

[jnbiche]

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember how easy it was for anyone to open a bank account in the 1990s. No multiple photo IDs or strict background check needed.