[dragonwriter]

> As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one their future will be a trainwreck. Just because they're largely minors doesn't, to me, mean that their parents have the right to deny them a future in favor of whatever their personal reasons may be.

Sounds like the solution is to: 1) Define what a "high quality education" means in terms that it is objectively measurable whether one is being provided to a child, 2) Assure that children, regardless of education venue (home, private, or public school) are receiving it.

Assuming that certain venues do provide a "high quality education" and that other venues do not -- in any direction -- doesn't seem particularly useful if that is a genuine concern rather than a superficial rationalization.

[smacktoward]

> Sounds like the solution is to: 1) Define what a "high quality education" means in terms that it is objectively measurable

Um, good luck with that.

[yaddayadda]

A collaborative attempt to do so has lead to the Common Core - http://www.corestandards.org/ - which "... define the rigorous skills and knowledge in English Language Arts and Mathematics that need to be effectively taught and learned for students to be ready to succeed academically in credit-bearing, college-entry courses and in workforce training programs." and ability to measure attainment was one of their internal requirements during the development process (http://www.corestandards.org/assets/Criteria.pdf).

[kevingadd]

The point is not that homeschooling provides a lower quality education than public schools (though I would argue that, on average, it does) - the point is that homeschooling is being done by unqualified people using unverified, quickly-considered techniques, while public schooling is at least largely done by people who got teaching certifications and their methods get public scrutiny.

To me, the amount of criticism public schools receive is an indicator of their worthiness - people are able to inspect the education and intervene directly if they feel it is inadequate, and the government has the ability to provide useful oversight and assist in setting standards. I'm sure there are many cases where this centralization is to children's detriment, but at least it is a largely transparent system.

In comparison, the only real transparency provided into a homeschooled child's education is when they start college and have to find out whether they really learned enough essential skills and information to be able to compete in a real educational environment. If the answer is 'no', it's too late to do anything.

Objective measurements would be great, and so would more rigorous enforcement. Historically, homeschooling groups are against both.

[dragonwriter]

> The point is not that homeschooling provides a lower quality education than public schools (though I would argue that, on average, it does) - the point is that homeschooling is being done by unqualified people using unverified, quickly-considered techniques

Sometimes.

Othertimes, its being done by highly qualified professional educators who are intimately familiar with their students and who spend a lot of energy on researching educational methods specific to their student(s), with far greater focus than when they are having 150 students passed by them each day on a conveyer belt.

Would I like to guarantee that no child is subjected to the former? Certainly. Would I accept the cost of preventing children from benefitting from the latter to do it? No.

> while public schooling is at least largely done by people who got teaching certifications and their methods get public scrutiny.

Yeah, and restaurants are at least subject to inspections for compliance with requirements of facilities and methods, whereas home cooking is done by unqualified people using unverified, quickly considered techniques.

But what I cook at home is consistently better than McDonald's, still.

Industrial mass production -- whether its of food, or education, or anything else -- is rarely of the highest attainable quality.

[baddox]

> the point is that homeschooling is being done by unqualified people using unverified, quickly-considered techniques, while public schooling is at least largely done by people who got teaching certifications and their methods get public scrutiny.

But still, you're assuming that unqualified (according to whose qualifications?) people using unverified (by whom?) techniques are worse on average than public schools.

It's not easy to agree on what objective measurements comprise "good schooling," but I think most people will agree that homeschooling and public schooling both vary wildly in quality if we were to agree upon some objective measurements. It's not fair to implement policies for either type of schooling based solely on the worst examples of that type of schooling.

[kevingadd]

I think it's reasonable to assume that unless anyone has proven the contrary, which they haven't. If you were replacing a public school with a private school, I'd agree that it is unwise to assume the private school is worse. We're talking about replacing an entire school staff with a couple overworked parents, though.

Many arguments in favor of homeschooling are about parents' religious freedom or about how the public school system has failed the children, and in both cases this does nothing to demonstrate that the parents are going to do a better job.

I do agree that objective measurements would allow this stuff to be considered rationally, but historically it's really hard to come up with useful objective measurements due to all of the different pressures involved.

[baddox]

> I think it's reasonable to assume that unless anyone has proven the contrary, which they haven't.

I disagree. I think it could go either way, as I have no real scientifically valid evidence either way, but I think the burden of proof is on the party advocating using violence to prevent the other party from doing what it wants.

> Many arguments in favor of homeschooling are about parents' religious freedom or about how the public school system has failed the children, and in both cases this does nothing to demonstrate that the parents are going to do a better job.

True, but it also does nothing to demonstrate that the parents are going to do a worse job.

[kevingadd]

Who said anything about violence? I think it's a pretty absurd leap to go from me expressing a negative opinion on homeschooling directly to me seemingly dispatching SWAT teams to round up homeschoolers.

[baddox]

How then would you implement a policy that prohibits parents from homeschooling if they don't meet certain qualifications?