[dangrossman]

> something (probably the security C/R exchanges) is timing out

Yes, something's definitely timing out. If I watch the Vera UI after sending the command, it times out and retries several times before giving up. Yet other times it works, but usually only after at least one retry. The hub isn't too far from the door, and there's no walls in-between. The unreliability of z-wave stuff is my biggest problem with it.

The Nest responds pretty much instantly to commands despite them having to go out to the internet then back. The unofficial APIs provide access to everything the device and its web/mobile apps can do. Same with my Belkin WeMo switches and sensors -- you're probably not a fan of WeMo either, but I'm a fan of them responding instantly and speaking UPnP.

The divide between these products isn't really about "tinkerers vs non-tinkerers". If that was it, Nest/WeMo/etc would win over the monoprice z-wave stuff any day. They're much easier to hack with (no extra hardware required, HTTP APIs, open source libraries readily available) and typically do a lot more than the generic single-function devices.

The divide you've set up is around privacy and external dependency. The tradeoffs there aren't the same, and not everyone's going to agree with you on that either, even hackers with full knowledge. I don't necessarily think self-hosted and self-supported APIs are a better future. That's a future that would limit a lot of the cool stuff you can do with these devices to us, instead of making it available to everyone. Most of the coolest stuff in our homes today already relies on entrusting a certain amount of control and information to 3rd parties, from your electric company, to your ISP, to the makers of all the set-top boxes connected to your TV, to the phone in your pocket. All of these things involve giving up tons of data and control of your home.

I have no problem with "smart thing" makers hosting APIs so long as they remain trustworthy with that data, and reliable, which is not a huge ask. I'm a lot more confident Google can run Nest's API reliably and securely than Vera staying in business and keeping its P.O.S. MiOS functioning.

[vicaya]

Well, locks are special beasts due to the security command class, which requires extra challenge/response round trips. My VeraLite-G (the cheap $135 one) is more than 50ft and a couple of dry walls away from the door and the overall latency is consistently around 1.4 seconds measured, while sending commands to the thermostats takes less than 0.2 seconds. It feels instant enough for me. The commands to the lock is routed through my thermostats and appliance module. I'm actually pleasantly surprised with how well the Z-wave mesh network worked. I need two Wifi APs to cover my house, if it were not for the second AP, the wifi signal at the door would be too weak to function reliably.

OTOH, I'm too somewhat disappointed at the quality, security and the development of the MiOS, but we as hackers can at least do something about it.