[eliah-lakhin]

I actually didn't work with Emacs, and I tried Vim a little. The major reason why I gave up is learning curve. Keybindings(especially in Emacs) are too unfimiliar for windows/mac user like me. And I don't think this is a good idea to remap all shortcuts(I'm not a big fan of customization).

[mfukar]

An interesting conundrum: f you don't feel like learning, can we suggest anything actually useful?

[eliah-lakhin]

oh, comeone! I didn't say I can't/don't want to learn anything. I just said that learning barrier in case of Emacs specificially is too high for me. I don't want to spend that much time on code editor. But it doesn't mean I don't want to learn at all.

To be more specific, if Emacs would have more familiar keybindings for Windows/Mac users I probably use it. For example from the manual http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~br/courses/cs699-autumn2013/refs/... :

> C-e end of line

Why not just "end"?

> M-v scroll down one page

I would like to use "page-down" instead.

> C-Space Set beginning mark (for region marking for example)

Really? Why not just press "Shift"?

ok, ok, I know that old keyboards didn't have all these buttons, and also Windows "familiar" key bindings were defined much later. So Emacs and Vim developers did what they did. But why should I spend so many time in learning all these oldschool workarounds?

Yes, I want terminal-based editor. But the rest of the killer features of Emacs or Vim are not so unique these days. I can obtain near the same level of functionality and flexibility in any modern window-based editor such as Sublime Text or IntelliJ Idea. Currently I'm using this one as my primary code editor - just for text, not for Java. And I find that it has even wider range of handy code manipulation commands than Emacs provides.

So, returning to my question. I would prefer to choose terminal-based code editor. And it is ok if it will be differ from the editors that I use - I'm ready to spend time in learning new stuff. But I'm not ready to learn code editor completely from scratch. That's why I rejected Emacs. ok, maybe I was wrong, so I would like to hear your opinion.

[ThePawnBreak]

I suggest learning Emacs because of the extensibility and the huge amount of plugins available. I don't think it would take more than a few hours to get accustomed to basic editing in Emacs (moving with C-n C-p C-f C-f, and searching as a way of navigating the file, also opening and closing files -- this should be enough to get you started).

I just tried the keys you mentioned in Emacs: they all worked (except for selecting with Shift). So End takes you to the end of the line, you can scroll using PgUp and PgDown. The reason that they are not used is that you need to get your hands of the home row to use them, which makes them unbearably slow for people used to quick editing.

I hope you'll give it a chance.

[snogglethorpe]

> I just tried the keys you mentioned in Emacs: they all worked (except for selecting with Shift).

Selecting-with-shift works in Emacs too.

[It was added a few years ago so might not work if you've got an ancient version installed...]

[auganov]

You might like http://www.ergoemacs.org/ Anyways there's probably tons of plugins that would change key bindings to something that you'd like more. Might also want to look into cua-mode.

Maybe you can tell us why you need it to work in a console. Do you only want to edit files over there? Could try sshfs. If you're able to use X11 on your servers you might look into X11 forwarding through ssh to use Sublime too.

[eliah-lakhin]

> Maybe you can tell us why you need it to work in a console. Do you only want to edit files over there?

Well, I'm using Windows on my primary machine when I'm at home, and Mac when I'm outside. It's not a secret that Windows is bad as a development environment. Even it's file system has issues in mapping to unix fs. So I prefer to keep all my development things on remote Linux machine, and work through the SSH. That's why I'm interesting in terminal-based editors.

[auganov]

I see. I tried using a remote server as my dev environment. Most of the time it ALMOST works. But there's so many edge cases where it gets annoying. It never really worked out. I'm on Windows too and I did manage to make it into a decent environment. Yes it does take time and effort. But I'm so so glad I did, it's really worth it.

[dmm]

Page-up and page-down work fine in emacs. Home and End move the cursor to the beginning and end of the line, respectively.

It's clear you haven't even tried it.

Take a deep breath. Pick and editor and try and use it for a week.

[eliah-lakhin]

I know that these buttons work too. But this is not a convenient way of using Emacs.

[dmm]

You said:

> I would like to use "page-down" instead.

So just use page-down. What's the problem? Why isn't it convenient?

[eliah-lakhin]

I prefer to follow design principals and product's phylosophy that laid down to the product by it's developers. If I find the principles inappropriate for me I prefer to find something different, than modding the product using any sort of plugins. Including keyboard's extension keys that I would call "plugin" too in this context.