[lutusp]

> This really means harassing and arresting problem students and undesirables who are loitering near businesses.

It's also probably unconstitutional, on the ground that it produces at least the appearance of selective enforcement. This kind of goal is usually achieved by hiring a private security guard, rather than paying a (normally) taxpayer-funded police department to focus its attention on a specific zone.

[jmccree]

I'm not really not sure about the unconstitutional argument, but it's extremely common. Normally it's done more explicitly by hiring off duty officers. NYPD has the paid detail unit to organize private details for businesses. Where I live in Atlanta, every neighborhood you'd want to live in has their own privately paid force of off-duty officers patrolling. I'm more surprised that facebook is basically offering a grant/donation than outright hiring their own off-duty officers.

[e12e]

But off-duty officers are just civilians? They have no added powers to use force against citizens?

[lutusp]

> But off-duty officers are just civilians? They have no added powers to use force against citizens?

That's correct. Police officers can only exercise police powers while on duty, and when they go off shift, they become civilians.

[jmccree]

I'm not sure if you're referring to a certain jurisdiction in the US, another country, or speaking "theoretically per your interpretation of the US constitution if a case made it to the supreme court", but that is not accurate for the majority of the states in the US. Most US states I'm aware of currently grant officers police authority on and off duty per state law.

[e12e]

Hm, I see that police in Norway also seem to have the same authority off-duty as while at work (and certain obligation to intervene if they happen upon serious crime, as well as the option to intervene as if they where on duty (as long as they are able to identify themselves as police officers, and are sober)). They are prohibited against taking other jobs (moonlighting) without approval from the police commissioner, however.

[jmccree]

By off duty, I mean fully in department issued uniform, badge, gun, and radio with full police authority same as on duty.

[lutusp]

> By off duty, I mean fully in department issued uniform, badge, gun, and radio with full police authority same as on duty.

Don't you understand that an off-duty police officer may not be in uniform, that that's illegal? In some jurisdictions an off-duty police officer is expected to carry his gun, but he may not exercise police powers.

In short, when a police officer goes off shift, he loses his police powers. Being a policeman is a job, not an identity.

[e12e]

Apparently not, in many (most?) jurisdictions.

[lutusp]

> Normally it's done more explicitly by hiring off duty officers.

That's different. An off-duty police officer isn't acting in his official capacity as an agent of the police force, under oath. While off duty, he's just another trained civilian, suitable for private security duty.

> I'm more surprised that facebook is basically offering a grant/donation than outright hiring their own off-duty officers.

So am I -- what they're suggesting appears to be a violation of the law.

[jmccree]

As I mentioned to the other poster, off duty officers here (and many/most places) work in their department issued uniform with their badge/radio/gun with full police powers/immunity. Besides neighborhood patrols, another common use is parking garages or high end shopping centers hiring officers to stop traffic to let people in/out of their location on busy streets. It's not just ATL, NYPD paid detail unit supplies off duty in unform officers with dept insurance. Many police department websites even have online forms to fill out if you want to hire officer/s with standard rates.

I believe there are a few states/jurisdictions that restrict off duty officers from working in uniform w/police power, but that's probably a minority. With budgets being cut everywhere, officers being able to earn an extra 50% or more of their normal salary working off duty gigs is a "free benefit" the department can offer, or like in NYC where the NYPD charges a 10% admin fee ($1.18m earned in 2011) it's extra income for the dept.

For example, if Facebook was located in San Jose, they could just pay $46.50/hr for as many officers as they wanted, in unform, per http://www.sjpd.org/PDF_Forms/SEU_Secondary_Employment_Emplo... .

[lutusp]

> As I mentioned to the other poster, off duty officers here (and many/most places) work in their department issued uniform with their badge/radio/gun with full police powers/immunity [emphasis added].

Your claim is false, and you need to learn constitutional law. A police office working as a private security guard is not acting as an agent of the police, he is acting as an agent of whomever hired him, and he does not have police powers. He can make the same arrests that a citizen can make, but has no official police powers.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police

Quote: "Private police lack the same arrest powers of government law enforcement, but do have the right to make a citizens arrest if they actually witness a crime happening."

The above means that off-duty police officers are citizens, not police officers. It's considered desirable to learn a topic before posting about it, not after.

Link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_a_security_officer_have_the_p...

Quote: "Q: Does a security officer have the police power to make an arrest in new jersey? A: No, NJ does not give Private Security officers/guards any special police powers to execute an arrest. You only have the power to make a citizens arrest."

Shall I go through all 50 states for you?

[jmccree]

You'd first need to show at least one state where off duty officers lack arrest authority.

NJ Statute Quote: "40A:14-152.1. Municipal police officer; power of arrest for crime committed in his presence anywhere within state. Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S. 40A:14-152 or any other law to the contrary, any full-time, permanently appointed municipal police officer shall have full power of arrest for any crime committed in said officer's presence and committed anywhere within the territorial limits of the State of New Jersey."

There is no mention of requiring the officer to be on duty, and plenty of cities in NJ off in-uniform off duty officers. For example, Jersey City municipal code, § 3-85.1 Off-duty employment, includes:

"Purpose. For the convenience of those persons which utilize the services of off-duty law enforcement officers of the Jersey City Police Department, and to authorize the outside employment of Police while off-duty, the City of Jersey City hereby establishes a policy regarding the use of off-duty officers in compliance with Attorney General Formal Opinion 1997-No. 23."

You can read about the 11k officers that participate in the NYPD paid detail unit here, http://www.nycpba.org/archive/nydn/03/nydn-030810-ot.html . In Atlanta, Midtown Blue is "Comprised of more than 40 off-duty Atlanta Police Department (APD) officers with full powers of arrest". ( http://midtownatl.com/about/programs-and-projects/public-saf... ) In Miami, you can hire a police Lt for $50.50/hr. ( https://was8exp.miamidade.gov/MDPDOffDutyWeb/home.do ) In Denver, off duty police may not work at pot shops, but "Officers may act to prevent a breach of the peace or to enforce the law, but officers shall not enforce rules made in the interest of the secondary employer." ( http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/OperationsMan... ) In Durham, NC when you hire an off duty officer you get a " Law Enforcement (LE) Officer who is authorized to Enforce NC State Laws and Durham City Ordinances" ( http://durhamnc.gov/ich/op/DPD/Pages/Secondary-Info.aspx ). Shall I go on?

If you want to make some type of claim that any of the extensive off duty police employment (or even arrest powers) that happens is somehow theoretically unconstitutional at a federal or state level, I'd love to hear that argument and reasoning, but it's important to separate legal theory with the practiced and enforced laws. In most states, officers have their police authority on and off duty.

[otterley]

I'm not familiar with any case law on the issue of the constitutionality of selective enforcement. Are you?