[fishtoaster]

> Programming is also a skill, but it’s not at all intuitive or tangible. Without guided learning, it’s impossible to even get started.

I have to disagree. Especially with web programming, it's surprisingly easy to get started. I know plenty of people who started out by just copying and pasting bits of html they found through 'view source'. Even when I had a basic grasp of html (through the "guided" learning of a 5-page tutorial), my first javascript was trying to change a counter on a snippet I'd copied from somewhere else on the web.

I realize that "you need a mentor" is a profitable piece of advice for a site that sells web development tutoring, but it's blatantly incorrect.

[owenversteeg]

I agree (with you) 100%. I got started by reading the Java docs six years ago, and the Internet is all the instruction I've ever needed. In fact, I find that people that have a mentor when learning to program don't learn as much as when they have no mentor.

[jmduke]

The followup question, of course, is: how did those people discover 'view source'?

[fishtoaster]

How did any of us discover it? Presumably they saw an interesting button and clicked on it. That's how I first discovered that pages had source like that.