[ebfe]

Imagine for a second that Lebron James were to create a Kickstarter for a cookbook he wanted to make, which was funded to the tune of $100,000. Obviously, much of this money would come from people who didn't really care about the superstar's take on the perfect omelette, but valued his athleticism enough that they wanted to support him in other endeavors. Is this reduction of James to nothing more than his basketball skills equally problematic? If not, what do you see as the difference that makes this latter example of objectification ok?

[MartinCron]

What a terrible analogy. It's not like Linda Liukas is a pin-up model trying to trade on her sexuality. She's an educator and illustrator who is trying to do something great.

Please, stop being so damn creepy and/or supporting people who are so damn creepy. This community doesn't have to be such a hostile place.

[selmnoo]

> It's not like Linda Liukas is a pin-up model trying to trade on her sexuality.

So, I get what you're trying to say, but this is a tough one. Because, Linda did play up as a flirtatious girly girl in the promo video. Seriously, just watch the video: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lindaliukas/hello-ruby - and imagine if it was a man doing all of those things. Very strange, right? She's not behaving like a mature adult, she's got her shoes on the sofa... she's sitting in a clearly uncomfortable way... and I have to sit through a video in which I have to watch her fix her cute shoes? Why? Why not feature some kids in a promo video doing kiddy things, if she was going for the kiddy vibe? The flirtatious vibe that she instead chose to force in that video was very unnecessary in my opinion. So, paradoxically, it's Linda that's reducing women to sexual objects if she feels she has to behave in that way in order to sell up some books.

[MartinCron]

If you think that is flirtatious and sexualized, you have some serious issues. That video is whimsical and a bit over-produced, but it evokes play, not foreplay.

Does someone need to be in a burqa and talk in a monotone to keep the creeps from being creepy? How narrow a range of expression do you want for women before you start to make their objectification their fault?

[selmnoo]

Thought experiment: you see a man, same age as Linda, doing all the things Linda is doing (squinting eyes, and then abruptly opening them and doing an affected laugh, fixing clothes, fixing cute socks, sitting on a sofa with legs bent and shoes sitting alongside, jumping up and down on the couch, etc.), what do you think of him?

If you're not picking up on the flirtatious undertones, if you have no problem with that kind of unprofessional presentation, it's not me who has some serious issues, it's you.

Also, I'd rather have my kids focus less on trying hard with clothes and looks and more on the more substantive things in life. The focus in that video simply should not have been on Linda and her awesome persona. But it was. I wish I didn't have to sit through Linda fixing her shoe-socks, but it was in the video, I watched it. It was peculiar.

[detay]

Can't agree more. If people can't see what you're talking about, they're probably vulnerable to it. They're buying what that manipulative effort sells.

I totally find her gestures and the shots pretentious. I believe that's a part of her sales pitch but it didn't have to be, because the book idea is already good enough to sell.

[king_jester]

Finding this video pretentious is one thing, but being upset at the video because you have converted a person into a sex object based on really sexist notions about play and child-like behaviors is a red flag. We have seem multiple commenter take that point of view on the video.

[MartinCron]

You are literally saying that you need to behave like a man to be taken seriously. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[selmnoo]

Yes, that is precisely and literally what I am saying. I'm saying that if women wish to be taken seriously they need to behave like men.

Thank you for this very constructive dialogue, I have developed so much insight in this exchange. You've clearly gone to great lengths to communicate thoughtfully and understand the true matter in this situation. Thank you.