[dfc]

The fact that talking about mental health issues is beyond "the fringe of acceptable conversation" is harmful. I wholeheartedly agree that something needs to change on this front in order to prevent more tragedies. One small step would be to stop saying "lost the battle and passed from this world" and say "committed suicide."

We will not be able to engage in thoughtful, constructive and mature conversations if one of the unfortunate outcomes of mental illness is so taboo that we can not speak its name in public. Can you imagine a sexual education class where the teacher used terms like "thingies," "who-hahs" or "that other kind of sex"?

[EMRo]

Agreed. I chose to soften the language for my mother's sake.

[curun1r]

> One small step would be to stop saying "lost the battle and passed from this world" and say "committed suicide."

Or just 'suicided'. Suicide is typically a noun, but can be used as a verb too. Using the word commit, to me, ties it with judgmental phrases like 'committing a crime' or 'committing a sin'. Part of changing our perspective on mental illness will be to call out the subtle ways in which we demonize or otherwise blame the victim.

[Mz]

Please see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228583

I generally agree with you and stated clearly that it sounded like suicide. But, a) my mom says "funerals are for the living". So I think we need to respect the pain of the family here. And b) I have been writing online about very hard, delicate topics for quite a long time. So I have some practice with walking that line which I don't think we can expect or demand from someone in shock and mourning.

[dfc]

My original comment was motivated by genuine compassion and empathy. I have been starting and stopping a response to OP's reply to me for an hour now and I am unsure of how to phrase things. Your mom has a point, but when do we respect and try to prevent the pain of the next family? Every time this happens I understand and am tempted by the "now is not the time" reaction but I am also reminded of my favorite piece of writing:

  "Frankly, I have yet to engage in a [discussion of suicide and depression] that
  was 'well timed' in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the
  disease of [depression]. For years now I have heard the word 'Wait!' It rings
  in the ear of every [parent/friend/depressive] with piercing familiarity. This
  'Wait' has almost always meant 'Never.'"

[Mz]

I don't know the answer to that. I do know that conversations which make people feel blamed for something terrible that has happened and which cannot be reversed are disastrous.

I am very familiar with the social factors in suicide. The way I have been treated socially is a big part of why I am often suicidal. I have cystic fibrosis, as does my oldest son. We have figured out how to get well when everyone claims it cannot be done. The world would like us to politely die so doctors and others can feel like they know what they are talking about. I am currently deeply in debt and homeless. I can get almost no one to take me seriously. I feel a bit like Galileo, a prisoner and shunned for speaking the truth about an important discovery. It is the kind of thing other people get Nobel prizes for. But I am an outcast and the world is very content with condemning me to death and putting up obstacles at every turn. So, that is a big part of why I often feel like "what is the point?"

I perhaps made a mistake in returning to HN. I really do not feel welcome here. Plenty of wealthy, influential people here have attacked me or otherwise behaved in a malicious fashion towards me. In the past, it has been okay for people to pillory me here. The community did not care if I got the crap kicked out of me. The rules about "respecting" others and not engaging in personal attacks apparently do not apply so as to protect me. This is hardly unique to HN. It is pretty normal in most online settings.

I am clear that part of the reason for that is that people who are very ill or who have loved ones who are very ill are deeply hurt by the idea that I am getting well when they are not. Trying to share information with them is routinely interpreted as making them look stupid and shaming them, even in cases where the ill person still lives and could yet be helped.

So I have spent a lot of years wrestling with how to diplomatically talk about hard subjects, my health being just one of them. And long experience informs me that speaking of this issue in a manner which could make the OP feel somehow at fault for his brother's death cannot bring his brother back but can do all kinds of harm to him and others involved in the situation.

I am unwilling to suggest that the OP could or should have done x, y, or z differently and then his brother "would" still be alive. We do not know the particulars of this case and that is the worst kind of Monday night quarterbacking imaginable.

I hope the OP's intent to have his brother's death not be in vain serves to get people talking and helps others. It is too late to help his brother. It is not too late to do serious damage to him and others by how we talk about this.

Anyway, I have a headache. I logged in to find my last submission to HN dead. I am not in the best place emotionally myself today.

I hope that helps/sorry if it is TMI (something I am often accused of).