[BrownBuffalo]

Actually there is. If you are a software developer, you are skill laborer. If you are software engineer - you have the PE / FE exams. In some states its even illegal to call yourself a softare engineer (or [insert word here] engineer, without having an "engineering" degree. Secondly, the major problem to start out with is the proper business definitions / rules for which the software is designed for. Because software devs/*neers have a more "generalized" tool building education (either/or work experience / degree education), the understsanding has to come from both sides - we explore the capabilities and compare that to the process you are trying to map for your industry. But I digress ...

[morganherlocker]

> If you are software engineer - you have the PE / FE exams. In some states its even illegal to call yourself a softare engineer...

Is this actually illegal in any state, and is it actually enforced in any state? I would bet that 99% of people who have the title "Software Engineer" have not taken those exams, and most have a CS degree.

[Jtsummers]

Searching for that I found that the Software Engineering exam for PEs was introduced in 2013. I doubt that any states require it yet, if they do it's probably a provisional thing (way too many people that should qualify that won't because they haven't taken the exam yet, that's time and money to get certified, be stupid to require it after only 1 year of availability).

EDIT: Exam information (pdf):

http://cdn1.ncees.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Exam-specifi...

[BrownBuffalo]

Then let me clarify. Software Engineering PE / SE was before the certification (as you state) known primarily as Eletrical Engineers with Computer Science concentrations. My university only offered a CSE specific degree in the last 10 years (I believe, anyway).

[Mvandenbergh]

The issue is that you don't need to be chartered professional software engineer to get virtually any programming job. That isn't true for other engineering professions.

Most civil engineers are PEs and they often have to be to do their jobs legally. Mechanical engineers are often PEs. Electrical engineers doing electronics often don't bother (as it isn't legally required for most work) but EEs doing line-voltage and above design work usually have to be.

[walshemj]

Not really I worked at a top 5 civil consultancy and the majority of engineers where not chartered it takes quite a few years of professional work to achieve that status.

and its more about "who you know not what you know" to quote my dad

[bmj]

I am not an engineer, but have a good friend who is an engineer doing nuclear reaction cooling systems. He worked in the industry for close to ten years before getting his PE, and only did it because his employer asked him to (I believe it helped them get a contract). Based on my conversations with other engineers, other industries (ME, EE, CE) seem to operate in the same way--some employers don't require the exam at all, others may push to have employees take it within some period of time after hire.

[BrownBuffalo]

Right, because PEs usually play out in higher-level industrial "type" projects. Government, I think requires PE/FE in a lot of situations. The other part of this, is that you take the PE/FE exam TWICE when you leave college. One is right after college, and then you work under a PE for 5 years (if I'm not correct) as a "mentor" then take it again after 5 years. You have to be registered under this PE, as well. The certification is like the other applied engineering disciplines - where it says you are accountable for what you make. But you already seem to know this from side conversations.

[Mvandenbergh]

Sure, but those people are still working towards accreditation, they're part of that system in a way that most software engineers are not.

[walshemj]

True but a lot stop or drop out as did I did I started as the mech eng professional apprentice doing day release - I also looked at going down the experience route for the BCS but they keep changing the rules and did not seem to do anything worth while.

[pessimizer]

That's an example of the professional clout of engineers, not programmers.