[tluyben2]

Well yeah; that's the eternal issue generally; top managers are considered doing well because they dared to reorganized. That's great, but they also messed up; if they didn't there would be no need for the lay-offs; IBM is big; they can put those people to work in another division. So after the re-organization I would suggest the responsible managers are fired with a few weeks severance as well. That never happens though and no matter what people come up with as excuses, they never sounds very valid. Giving some guys a few million bonus (don't say that happens here, but probably will, learning from the past) basically for firing 10.000 people is a weird concept in my eyes and it will always be. The bonuses and other incentives for the responsible parties should be put towards re-educating and re-hiring the affected people in other parts of IBM (and whatever other company you put here). IMHO.

[fennecfoxen]

Who says they messed up? IBM sold their server business and Lenovo didn't want all the employees. IBM made money off the sale, IBM saves money not employing everyone anymore, profits and shareholder value.

For a variety of other layoffs, adding management punishment would make some sense. This one, not so much.

[tluyben2]

Like I said; not messing up would be making sure they have other jobs either at IBM or elsewhere. Not calling laying off 13000 people messing up sounds strange to me; you have a social responsibility here. People are not things you can discard when you don't need them anymore. If you have no other way, then ok, but IBM is not close to any kind of bankruptcy or situation like that.

[fennecfoxen]

> not messing up would be making sure they have other jobs either at IBM or elsewhere.

Oh, I see. You're a Communist and think IBM exists to provide jobs, not to provide shareholder profits. That'll necessarily lead you to a different conclusion than it led me.