[JonnieCache]

>Ketamine is exceptionally safe and relatively non-addictive BTW

This is dangerous misinformation. I've had more than one friend almost die from compulsive ketamine use. Just because it might not be physiologically addictive like opiates, doesn't mean that you won't be wiping it from around your nose every morning while you wait for the bus at 8:30 to go to classes, losing all your friends and so much weight that your body starts shutting down completely. People end up needing their bladders removed surgically from the sheer amount of extremely alkaline solutions they are putting into their bodies. Tolerance builds very quickly and with a sharp curve, so users end up having to shovel huge quantities of this very caustic material into their faces just to feel normal.

(Thankfully the people I know managed to come back from the brink, but only by completely shutting themselves off from the world for a long time.)

The problem is, its effects are "light" enough that it is possible to use it all day every day, and still be functional enough to carry on. People who enjoy the effects and have a compulsive personality will probably end up using it constantly if the have access to it. In this respect it is similar to weed, and alcohol, although that has a physiological component too.

Plus it turns you into a drooling moron and ruins parties. We call it "twatnip."

[adobriyan]

Any reasonable public forum will flat out ban any drug discussions because of experts like 70forty who tell kids it is safe.

[rmrfrmrf]

This is quite an instructive thread on why it has taken so long for sensible drug policies to be put in place around the world. One person makes a generalization, another person counters with a broader generalization, someone throws in their n=1 experience, and now suddenly we're off the topic of drugs and onto dictating what is "reasonable" discussion for a public forum.

The bottom line: you are responsible for 1) your own intelligence and 2) your own body. Having done research on Ketamine, I was well aware that 70forty's comments were inaccurate, but I chose not reply because he may very well be right by his own definition of "safe" and "non-addictive" based on his knowledge and experience. I would hold anyone who chooses to try any chemical to the same standard -- do your own fact-finding, draw your own conclusions, and be your own authority over your body.

Suggesting that we should suppress any comment that has some remote potential for catastrophe, though, is a bit much.

[JonnieCache]

The problem is, it is "safe" in the sense that it is a medical drug with a known set of effects. You cannot cause breathing to cease with ketamine. People aren't allergic to it. It is used on battlefields and in road traffic accidents for these reasons. It doesn't really cause vomiting, at least not in the lethal combination with total unconsciousness that leads alcohol and heroin to take so many lives. So it is "safe," especially in the context of occasional use.

When you get a community of people with constant, cheap access to large amounts, it's a different story. Ironically, if the acute effects were slightly more severe, the long-term effects might not be such a problem, as chronic abuse would be less prevalent.

[adobriyan]

Before HN I only heard of ketamine once: Greg House telling nurses to tell Cuddy "I want ketamine". Drug is drug, OK.

Turns out it is well known "recreational" drug. Who knows, in a year, I might try it myself.

That's how it usually works.

[70forty]

And I stand by what I said.

It's tough to find statistics but the article below says that between 1993 and 2006, 23 deaths were tied to ketamine use. That to me qualifies as safe and relatively non-addictive in the context of recreational drug use.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ketamine-tops...

Oh yeah, and banning discussion of recreational drug use will do wonders for harm reduction, lol.

[shawnz]

I don't see where you are getting "relatively non-addictive" from. I have had many positive experiences with Ketamine, but I will be the first to say that it takes a lot of self-control to not overdo it.

EDIT: To be clear, I am aware ketamine is not physically addictive. However I find it to be one of the most psychologically addictive drugs I have taken.

[sizzle]

as in, you crave the feeling of being on it?

[andreasvc]

That's not a good criteria for safety at all (and the conclusion of non-addictiveness is totally unwarranted by the number of deaths). Lots of chemicals are damaging without killing you: lowering your IQ, organ damage, etc.

[adobriyan]

> 23 deaths were tied to ketamine use.

some future ketamine deaths are on you, 70forty

[Crito]

Quit being so melodramatic. 23 deaths in over a decade is a rounding error.