[crag]

"You won't find much sympathy for the middle class who choose a nicer house in a more expensive city, a newer car, or a bigger family instead of safety and security for the future."

The average cymo treatment is about $75,000 a hit. So, you know anyone who is prepared for that? The top 1% are, of course. But the rest of us? Those who don't have insurance are fucked. Those that do are ok until they get a bill for services not covered by their insurance. And god help you if you want a non-standard treatment. Then it's ALL on you. And then the house is up for sale. Then the cars. Then you are applying for medicare disability. Only to be dined because you made too much money last year.

This happens all the time. My hope is that Obamacare deals this. But I have my doubts.

Tell you what.. get cancer then come back and comment. I bet you change your mind. ;) No offense of course. Just don't come to my county hospital for care.. my property taxes are high enough. ;)

[colechristensen]

The thing that seems to be missing from most people's argument is that the cost doesn't go away if you move to a single-payer healthcare system. You still pay for that $75k in the form of higher taxes and higher prices... it doesn't get erased. Wanting a non-standard treatment and not being approved won't change with single-payer... you'll still have to sell everything you own to pay for it.

[santosha]

Saying the cost doesn't 'go away' is deflecting from the fact that it does reduce overall, because of a number of reasons. Administrative costs are vastly reduced. Employers no longer have to negotiate individual contracts with insurers. Hospitals don't need huge administrative staff for deals with different insurers and paperwork for each one. On the whole, the cost savings from moving to single-payer take a huge bite out of the increased taxes.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer

Under plans like H-R 676, 95% of people are expected to pay less overall for healthcare. So, no, you are not paying for 'that $75k', you are paying for much less.

[crag]

" Administrative costs "

They are HUGE. I work in the field (writing software). Every insurance company has it's own forms and payments requirements. So do governments, local, state and federal. Not to mention reporting requirements. Throw in other insurances such as schools, the VA (and TriCare), Medicare, Medicare Disability (they are different by the way) and Medicaid - and the hundreds of other sources I've missed. This all equals to a administrative nightmare. A cluster-fuck. A huge expense the hospitals and doctors have to deal with. And you'd think moving to electronic medical systems would fix this.

And this is one of the big reasons healtcare.gov failed the first time out.