[VladRussian2]

" В соответствии со ст. 27 Федерального закона «О Центральном банке Российской Федерации» «официальной денежной единицей (валютой) Российской Федерации является рубль. Введение на территории России других денежных единиц и выпуск денежных суррогатов запрещается». Получившие определенное распространение анонимные платежные системы и криптовалюты, в том числе наиболее известная из них – Биткойн, являются денежными суррогатами и не могут быть использованы гражданами и юридическими лицами. "

translation:

"According to the title 27 of the Federal Law "On Central Bank of Russian Federation" "the official currency of Russian Federation is rouble. Issue (introduction) of other currencies and currency surrogates on the territory of Russia is prohibited". Anonymous payment systems and cryptocurrencies, including the most popular - Bitcoin, are currency surrogates and can't be used by physical persons and corporations. "

This determination - bitcoin as a currency surrogate - was made by the "expert group" consisting of high level bureaucrats from the enforcement side, ie. Central Bank, FSB, police (police in Russia is one big vertically integrated structure from local to federal level), Attorney General office.

[usaphp]

> "the official currency of Russian Federation is rouble, Issue (introduction) of other currencies and currency surrogates is prohibited

How is that different from any other country? Its a generic law that every other country has, you can't start spreading a new currency in United States as well because "official currency of United States is US Dollar".

We all know what happened to a "Liberty Dollar" in United States [1]:

In 2006 the U.S. Mint issued a press release stating that prosecutors at the Justice Department had determined that using Liberty Dollars as circulating money is a federal crime. The press release also stated that the "Liberty Dollars" are meant to compete with the circulating coinage (currency) of the United States and such competition consequently is a criminal act.[2]

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Federal_Governme...

[2]: http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=p...

[waterlesscloud]

You're ignoring the relevant part that is quite different from how most countries have thus far ruled on bitcoin-

"Anonymous payment systems and cryptocurrencies, including the most popular - Bitcoin, are currency surrogates and can't be used by physical persons and corporations."

[taivare]

All your Bitcoins are's belongs to us !

[ripter]

I thought you could spread a new currency in the US, but no one has to accept anything other than the official US currency. Which was the reason why things like tokens and bitcoins can exist.

[oillio]

You cannot make your currency resemble official US currency in any way that would confuse a normal citizen. This has been interpreted rather broadly. The Secret Service has shut down a number of private currencies due to this rule, including silver/gold backed paper money and coins, Liberty Dollar, eGold, etc. I think they shut down the guy that was putting a bitcoin sticker on gold coins as well.

The reason they have not shut down Bitcoin is that they do not consider it a currency. It isn't money, it is a commodity at best.

[baddox]

That would be a more reasonable law, but that is not the law.

[nullc]

Except it is the law. Liberty dollars were intentionally similar in design with US currency— any random joe would confuse them. Literature from their maker encouraged (with indirect language) people to pass them off as US dollars and they were priced to make it profitable to do so (E.g. $8 in melt value silver, sold to you for $15 with a "$20" stamped on the front). (See: http://truthalliance.net/Portals/0/Archive/images/news/2012/... plus there are a whole _additional_ set of laws covering the minting of coins of precious metal in the US which aren't relevant for Bitcoin discussions).

The counterfeiting charges in the Liberty dollar case basically went uncontested.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_i...

To do otherwise rapidly runs into a mess of regulating every single private interaction people have.

[baddox]

That's not my understanding of the law or that case, as summarized in the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Federal_Governme.... The relevant section of US code says

> Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

The creator of the currency was convincted for violating this section of code, among others. This is completely separate from imitating US dollars or counterfeiting. I can find no indication that imitation of official US currency was the primary or only justification for his conviction. Every source I can find indicates that simply competing with official US currency is a crime.

[nullc]

> any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals,

And you think this is applicable to Bitcoin because?

In any case, I was going to chide you to read the ruling, but it seems to have vanished offline. It was previously online. Fascinating stuff.

Here were the actual charges (from the BVNH wikipedia article):

Von NotHaus was charged under counterfeiting laws with one count of conspiracy to possess and sell coins in resemblance and similitude of coins of a denomination higher than five cents, and silver coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States in denominations of five dollars and greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485, 18 U.S.C. § 486, and 18 U.S.C. § 371; one count of mail fraud in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1341 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; one count of selling, and possessing with intent to defraud, coins of resemblance and similitude of United States coins in denominations of five cents and higher, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; and one count of uttering, passing, and attempting to utter and pass, silver coins in resemblance of genuine U.S. coins in denominations of five dollars or greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486 and 18 U.S.C. § 2.

You need to be somewhat careful with non-court sources on this, people on NotHaus' side have been making a strenuous effort to cast this as persecution of alternative currencies, and they've had some help from some inept law enforcement people who— as usual— don't understand the law. If you go and actually read the indictment and conviction you'll see that it wasn't really at all.

[VladRussian2]

the difference is that Eric Holder hasn't yet made a determination that Bitcoin is a currency and thus violates the law (like they did to Liberty Dollar, etc...)

[mappu]

How do other foreign currencies compare to bitcoin with respect to this paragraph? Surely that doesn't mean it's correspondingly illegal to trade RUB for USD within russia, but i'm not sure what the salient difference is

[VladRussian2]

>Surely that doesn't mean it's correspondingly illegal to trade RUB for USD within russia, but i'm not sure what the salient difference is

If i remember correctly the other party must be a bank.

[pera]

source: http://www.genproc.gov.ru/smi/news/news-86432/