[tomp]

> The EU commission (which is the unelected organisation

What are you talking about? It's elected, maybe not by the people directly, but by their (elected) representatives. That's the same as saying that the US president isn't elected, because s/he isn't elected directly by the population.

> the European Union as "democratic" ? It's not.

Care to substantiate that claim?

[true_religion]

In practice, the US president is directly elected by the population. Every state has a law declaring that their electors (the representatives that really 'elect' the president) will follow the majority vote counted within that state.

Granted, if you look at wikipedia it'll say its an indirect system, but that's only a technicality.

[tomp]

Ok, then I was wrong. I've previously heard that in theory, the electors could change their mind, so that's why the parties only nominated their most senior, most trusted members for electors.

[selectodude]

You're technically right (the best kind of right) but in practice, that hasn't happened in probably 250 years.

[waps]

Euhm no. The distance between the commissars and elected officials is much bigger.

They're appointed by vote by foreign ministers of the member states (as a group, they can't include or exclude individuals), who are elected as a group (again, no apointing individuals) by the local parliaments. By that standard, the new CEO of Microsoft is an elected official. Also note that most European commissars are not appointed by the current governments of the member states.

As if that's not bad enough, why don't you look at the results of European referenda, how the people voted on the creation of Europe in the one instance they were asked.

Let me help you out with the links :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_re...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_European_Constitution_ref...

Several other referenda that were planned were canceled, for reasons that I'm sure had nothing to do with how people were voting.