[patio11]

Gox's explanation is that the 2nd largest bank in Japan was so inundated by Gox's wire transfer volume that it could not possibly cope with it.

An alternative hypothesis very popular in the community: Mt. Gox has been functionally insolvent since the US froze about $6 million in their accounts when they closed the US subsidiary for being a money laundering operation, and Mt. Gox has been delaying hard-currency withdraws to the majority of their customer base to buy time until their transaction fees make them solvent again.

A point in favor of the alternative hypothesis: I don't have to be an idiot to believe it is true.

Another hypothesis I'd grant greater than zero credence to: Bank: "We think you're a money transmitter." Gox: "Really!?" Bank: "Certainly looks like that." Gox: "We prefer to think of ourselves as a technical firm which is compliant with all the laws of Japan as long as nobody asks any pointed questions." Bank: "No technical firm requires more than, say, 10 outgoing wires per day. If you need more than that, we need to ask some pointed questions."

[dash_riprock]

I fear your point 2 is right but your point 4 makes me laugh the most - which helps let me tell you.

It was, as they say, to good to be true.

[kalleboo]

> Gox's explanation is that the 2nd largest bank in Japan was so inundated by Gox's wire transfer volume that it could not possibly cope with it.

Anyone who's banked in Japan wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that.

This is a country where the only ATMs that take foreign cards are the ones at 7-11. All international transfers are performed by hand, on paper. They'll call you at home to ask you the reason for your transfer. What company other than Mt Gox sends out thousands of international wires per day? Everyone else has foreign subsidiaries to deal with that. And we all saw what happened when Mt Gox tried that...

That said, that's no excuse for people to attempt to use them as a customer. The lack of transparency this far along into the problem has made me lose any faith in them as well. They seriously can't even give you a queue number and ETA on your transfer?

[patio11]

Having lived in Japan for the past decade, worked on systems which interact with the Japanese banking system, and having a few hundred international wire transfers under my belt, I feel like I have to comment here. I could just say that "Every falsifiable representation you made about the Japanese banking system is, in fact, false." That would be true, but then I'd have to get into an argument about the density of post offices in Ogaki or differences in individual bank's interpretations of Japan's AML laws or their internal risk controls.

International wire transfers are not some wildly innovative technology which this backward island nation with a multi-trillion dollar economy built on exports and financial services had never heard of before. You can, in fact, make a person-to-person international wire transfer which is, from the user's perspective, totally automated, by typing into an ATM machine. Somebody at the bank will end up typing into a different machine, exactly like happens if you do a wire transfer through e.g. Bank of America, at either a branch or through their web site. The larger remittance firms each individually process far, far, far more than 1,000 transactions per day. I was a monthly customer of one, and can assure you that yen can leave Ogaki and show on a Bank of America bank statement within 45 minutes. You will claim that this is because they have foreign subsidiaries, but it is, in fact, because they have no difficulty proving to US banks that they are not engaged in money laundering. I lack the intellectual resources to even attempt to engage with the claim that the Magic the Gathering Online Exchange has international payment processing challenges in excess of those experienced by Toyota.

[kalleboo]

I'll have to take your word that the business end is better, because the private banking part I've dealt with has been a massive shitshow.

> You can, in fact, make a person-to-person international wire transfer which is, from the user's perspective, totally automated, by typing into an ATM machine.

Which bank? I want to know so I can switch to them. All the ones I've researched only do them with paper forms or over the phone. Only one that can even do it online was Mizuho if you have a business account.

[patio11]

https://www.goremit.jp/exchange/en

Keep your existing bank account, get an account with these guys (it requires a paper application the first time, nothing thereafter unless your situation materially changes), go to any bank/atm in Japan and do an interbank transfer (振込み) to the number they give you. They'll process an international wire for you on the back end to the beneficiary account you identify in advance. Costs about as much as a wire transfer generally costs (about $50 all-in to US, after you add your bank's fee, Lloyd's, the intermediary's, and your bank in the US).

If you're primarily concerned about a beneficiary which isn't the US/UK/etc, tell me the country and I may be able to make a better recommendation.