[Udo]

I don't think you've read that "claptrap" in its entirety, otherwise you'd have seen that I agree the undermining of those regimes is pretty much only achievable with education. If you're from the US, that includes your regime as well, which I'm guessing is the point you're disagreeing with.

If you really want to hear something controversial from me: I don't think the problem is political at all, at the core it's all about religious ignorance and religion-inspired values. Politics has a way of resolving itself, religion does not (except, again, through education hopefully).

Also I'd like to point out that I don't write comments to get upvotes - although it's nice to see people agreeing with me on stuff, I'm really here for the discourse. I fully expect my comments on this thread to turn gray shortly, to be honest.

[bananacurve]

No, it is claptrap.

>Both have values centered on abject ignorance and strict religious ideas

Having other confused people agree with you does not make it true. You believe in a caricature regarding both countries.

[Udo]

> Having other confused people agree with you does not make it true.

So people who don't agree with you are "confused" now?

> You believe in a caricature regarding both countries.

I agree it's problematic to make statements about entire countries. But it's comparatively easy to observe what their political systems act like in practice. Of course that doesn't necessarily reflect what the majority of citizens actually think and believe.

I must confess I find it hard to understand your tone here. We seem to agree on the basics. The only difference between us would be that you assert I have an exaggerated perception of certain traits.

[bananacurve]

If you believe a caricature to be literally true how are you not confused? I suspect many know it is not anywhere near true but enjoy anything that paints the powerful US in a bad light.

[Udo]

> If you believe a caricature to be literally true how are you not confused?

You're right, now I am confused.

> I suspect many know it is not anywhere near true but enjoy anything that paints the powerful US in a bad light.

It's interesting that you perceived my post to be like that. It's not meant to be. Sadly, the US doesn't need any help to appear in a bad light, and again the same goes for the Muslim world by the way. That doesn't mean I'm happy about it.

I think it's more difficult to hear criticism coming from your friends than from your enemies. That's because your enemies have questionable motives. But your friends just worry about you and your destructive influence on yourself as well as your surroundings. That's exactly how many Europeans feel, I guess. Well, at least that's how I feel.

[bananacurve]

There are much bigger problems with the US than how religious it is currently. Gitmo is a disgrace, healthcare is a mess, keep running deficits. Being too religious is the least of the problems. The US is flawed, but it is not a theocracy despite what Europeans may believe.

[Udo]

I think the hope expressed here was that more education could result in a reduction of ridiculous religious ideas that currently take up the same space where the will for social and economic reforms should be.

It's not a theocracy, but it's still a militaristic country run by the religious right. Leading to all the things you complained about, and more.