[Innercode]

They could have a one sized fits all operating system, however they need to tailor the interface to each type of device. Using a mouse on a "touch" interface is a terrible experience, same as using touch in a mouse environment. I have not tried Windows 8 update, however first impressions have done the damage to Windows 8 already.

[girvo]

8.1 really makes it shine, and is amazingly useful in touch or M/K modes. I find the reactions to Windows 8 fascinating; my girlfriend and grandfather both love it (it was awesome to see the gf use windows side by side for once, rather than just maximise and alt-tab, and she worked out the snap mode on her own -- yes I know it's in Windows 7, but she loves the auto width changes with the slider) and they're not particularly tech savvy.

My mother on the other hand is quite adept, and dislikes it. Well, she did, until 8.1, and I configured it to use the desktop as the main interface, and she got used to it. Now she likes it too.

Personally, I haven't used Windows in half a decade, so it's interesting to watch the reactions too it. I think they are moving in the right direction, but need to adjust the desktop story a little.

[michaelwww]

Your post sounds like marketing copy to my ears. You have an extraordinarily adept family that Microsoft would probably appreciate hearing about.

[girvo]

*shrugs

That's my personal experience. If you want to call me a shill, then say it, rather than insinuate it.

Edit: Apologies, that was antagonistic. I was a professional salesperson for 7 years - I sometimes lapse into sales talk when discussing any product. Usually it's things other than Microsoft, and I'm not joking when I say that the last version I used was Vista, but I honestly think 8 is interesting, if unpolished. My family isn't adept other than my mother (she's 41).

[michaelwww]

I wasn't necessarily saying it was a bad thing. We're all grownups here on HN for the most part. I was just observing that it sounded like that to me. I don't knock salespeople. My old boss used to say that last two groups let go when a company is in trouble are those who make it (engineers like me) and those who sell it.

As a long time user of Windows, I'm frustrated, but maybe they're going after new people and they don't have the same expectations as me.

[theg2]

I use Win8 daily and have no issue using a mouse or my fingers, actually the mouse is far more accurate and faster so I fail to understand your statement.

[WiseWeasel]

Swipe gestures are a pain with a mouse, because you need to move the mouse to the right spot, click, drag in the opposite direction and then release, requiring a non-trivial amount of effort; and it just feels wrong when you're expected to do so regularly because you know there has to be a better way (like the way it used to work). Decades of desktop UI design focused on "discoverability" also mean that an unindicated need for a swipe gesture in order to access core functionality is frustratingly non-obvious to people experienced with classic desktop interfaces, and these will tend to be people whose advice is requested in purchasing decisions.

Swiping is awesomely natural on a touchscreen, but obviously sub-optimal otherwise. Reliance on a swipe gesture should be avoided in UI design for a mouse/touchpad and keyboard environment, in favor of buttons and menus, and mouse wheel/two-fingered scroll support.

[Amezarak]

If swipe gestures even work with the mouse in Windows 8, I didn't know it and it never occurred to me to even try, though now I'm curious to see what happens when I get back on my laptop. I never even considered trying. You don't do swipes if you have a keyboard and mouse in Windows 8, you use your buttons, menus, clicks, and mouse-wheel just as you suggest. Where did you get the idea that the Win8 interface required gestures?

[Amezarak]

You don't need to swipe, you just move the mouse to the corner of the screen (or use the keyboard shortcut.)

[WiseWeasel]

So you can! Well that's embarrassing. Guess I could try using the thing before I stick my foot in my mouth.

[WiseWeasel]

Opening the Charms bar.

[BlackDeath3]

You know what would really help with accuracy? If every tile was screen-sized. How could you possibly miss?

Also, the several seconds I've spent trying to open stupid like charms menus and things meant to be swiped with a thumb were not an enjoyable several seconds.