[yeukhon]

No one is "telling" girls to do anything

I did not say a gun was pointing at the girls to force them to program. If low female population in the tech sector is due to the lack of resource and the stereotyped masculine geek image, then how does inviting girls to an all-girl programming class help them in the long run?

If we want to minimize stereotype, and if the stereotype has to do with gender, then we need to educate both genders. This means bring in female speakers to educate and show to both the boys and the girls what they do as software engineer or as a mechanical engineer. The same resource we offer to girls can be offered to boys.

Because the popular culture has associated geek with a masculine image, a lot of girls don't think they are capable of or should be involved. Is mixed gender event less powerful than single-gender event? To some extent yes. For the beginning, the girls may feel comfortable with their own gender. But later on? First time working with a guy on a hackathon project? I am not shy, but if you ask me to work with a female for the first time, I probably end up being shy and careful.

but you don't want to put any effort into thinking or learning about gender

What do I need to know about gender? What is special there that I am not aware of?

In reality, people think differently about themselves. Some people think they are more capable than others. The best we can hope is that we can give each other a chance to show what they can do, to bust the myth that guys are better.

[_bfhp]

I agree that these classes should not be touted as "the solution", especially when the problem has not really even been articulated. But I'm of the opinion that women need all the help they can get financially, and so organizations offering resources to women for a good profession are doing good work. You may not see it that way, and I'm not going to try to sway you.

Increasingly many social scientists are thinking about "gender" ("women and men") as a social construction, laid on top of material reality (sex dimorphism, "males and females"). There's a wellspring of new thought, theory, and research in the past 20 years on gender, including:

Doing Gender - Candace West; Don H. Zimmerman - http://blog.lib.umn.edu/clar0514/academic/west%20and%20zimme...

Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine - http://www.cordeliafine.com/delusions_of_gender.html

The Gender Trap by Emily Kane - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0095VEM5O/ref=cm_cr_thx_vi...

[yeukhon]

Regarding social construction, no I haven't heard of it yet. I will take a look at that. Thank you.

I think we have reached a good discussion here. I do agree with you on "getting every help" they need, except, I just don't think it's a good idea to call for "hire more women" (some people literally turn having more women in tech into hiring more women). We are all for a better world.