[krrishd]

I feel like despite the great things these projects are trying to achieve, in the end they are just hacks. I think its time we try to shift the web standards to meet modern needs rather than trying to build around the limitatns right now. The web is the future, and there's no point putting off the inevitable.

[morganherlocker]

At the same time, developers need to ship using the tools that are currently available. I think a multi-pronged approach is inevitable. Of course, I say this as someone who avoids this sort of tool as a general rule, since it seems risky to use in production, so I definitely see what you are saying. On the other hand, this sort of thinking would probably have been an argument against jQuery several years ago, and despite the fact that it was a 'hack' over the awful js standard api, it became a de facto standard through brute force of popularity.

[ubernostrum]

I think its time we try to shift the web standards to meet modern needs

But when we try that, everyone piles on about how it's out of scope for web standards, and complains about how it's being done, and...

Just makes you want to throw your hands up.