[mcone]

What's interesting is that the article suggests that Obama himself did not know extent of the NSA's activities. ("At the same time, aides said Mr. Obama was surprised to learn after leaks by Edward J. Snowden... just how far the surveillance had gone.")

If that's true, it seems to indicate that Obama is not an overseer at all.

Have our worst fears been confirmed? Is the NSA an unstoppable organization that reports to nobody except itself?

[adventured]

The military industrial complex has been running the United States since WW2. It's best to take Eisenhower's speech as the acknowledgement of that. It was a sitting President issuing a dire warning of what can only be described as a coup to a free Republic.

The political power, the money, the might, the lobbying, the military budget slush fund, the endless scandals, the wars. It's pretty clear the military-industrial combination has done the most to shape the last five or six decades of America's existence.

[drzaiusapelord]

This is a good point. We have this fetished ideal of the POTUS as this mastermind, but I imagine a great deal of things are purposely hidden from him or hidden via apathy/politicking/corruption and "lets not involve the president on this," kind of thing.

I'm also curious what would happen if we had a president who was strictly anti-intelligence and anti-military. I imagine that's a quick way towards impeachment or getting deposed. There are way too many powerful people and way too much money in intel/military to just reform it. Can you imagine moving to a military budget on par with Russia? Ever?

If anything, we're a military power first and a democracy last. The fact that we can casually lie about war justifications, end the lives of 130,000 civilians, get into almost 1T in debt for it, and have it considered uncontroversial by American citizens and politicians speaks a lot about our values and our system.

[scintill76]

No kidding. This is either a lie "Golly, I had no idea, I am shocked! Until this news story blows over.", or a scary truth. If a contractor for the NSA was able to find more shocking abuses of liberty than the Commander in Chief knew of, it would seem what little oversight there is, is completely ineffective.

Both look bad for NSA and Obama, both should compel us to demand more transparency.

P.S. Some would say Snowden should have gone the sanctioned whistleblower route to bring this to the attention of the proper parties such as Pres. Obama. Personally I am not optimistic that that would have been effective. I believe Snowden has claimed trying to start conversations with superiors, and NSA claims he never did such a thing.