[gnoway]

One nitpick: it is not possible to really get Iris Pro on the desktop. The 4770R (all the R chips, actually) are FCBGA and not sold retail.

Maybe the big brand guys sell some desktops with Iris Pro, and I know Gigabyte has it in one of their NUC alternatives, but otherwise 'enthusiasts' can't get their hands on one

[corresation]

it is not possible to really get Iris Pro on the desktop

Current iMacs come with Iris Pro, and of course as you mentioned there are integrated products with it: While you can't buy it as a discrete chip at retail, you can certainly get Intel-equipped desktops with it, which was the point I was discussing.

Which is certainly by design by Intel, based upon an understanding their market: They put higher performance graphics in their mobile and FCBGA chips because those markets are where it is actually likely to be demanded -- from companies like Apple, or on a mobile where it is the primary graphics. When they sell a chip retail, it is overwhelmingly likely the buyer is going to be coupling it with a stand-along graphics card, so there really isn't much of a point.

Which is going to be the issue that AMD is going to come up against. They are selling something as an enthusiast chip while providing graphics capabilities that lie in that no-man's land of being overpowered for a standard business desktop, but underpowered for the market that is likely paying attention.

[gnoway]

I'm sorry that I completely ignored Apple. Although I am not sure I would consider someone buying an iMac (or any brand name prebuilt desktop system) to be an 'enthusiast.'

[nl]

Why not?

Downsides:

* It isn't a great gaming computer

* It isn't great value for money

Upsides

* It does give pretty decent performance (notably, it outperforms the new Mac Pro on some workloads)

* It looks attractive

* A prebuilt OS-X system means less futzing around with drivers etc

I don't play games (beyond the occasional Minecraft session with my son) and I'm not particularly price sensitive. I've built (many!) of my own computers, going back to a 386DX40, and I'm happy to do it again if I see a good reason. But at the moment I don't.

Desktop computers that seem attractive to me at the moment:

* Intel NUC

* iMac

What am I missing?

[gnoway]

This came off as much more judgmental than I intended, especially towards Apple which I respect as a company and whose products I admire from a design and integration perspective. I was also not trying to belittle Apple fans or customers of any of the other big name manufacturers.

I also really like OS X. As a FreeBSD user for many years, seeing OS X be successful is even a little gratifying because I know there's a lot of cross-pollination going on behind the scenes. I'm not a mobile/laptop kind of guy, but did use a MBP for a couple of years and it was without question the nicest laptop I've ever used. If I were to buy a laptop today it would probably be a Macbook Pro.

I've been building computers from parts for 30 years. I enjoy the research, part selection and construction aspect of the process. I like that I can go into the process with a specific set of criteria and come out with something that satisfies them exactly or, barring that, that I'm in control of the compromises. I like that if these criteria change or I find I made a mistake (more likely), I can just swap out a part and continue on. This is possible with most of the name-brand PC desktops, less so with the Apple products, but I like building it all myself the most.

Also, as a FOSS user, it's typical for hardware support to be an issue. Sometimes it feels like various industries either do not care about me as a user or actively want me to suffer; constructing a modern PC that doesn't have support issues is a challenge that brings a small amount of satisfaction when overcome. I understand if people think this is silly.

So, I consider myself an enthusiast. Given this explanation, hopefully my original comment makes more sense.