[a8da6b0c91d]

> Resource consumption is a problem with our current technological base

Overpopulation destroys quality of life. You can't fix that by throwing more technology at the problem. Technology isn't going to make more nice beachfront property accessible and affordable for middle class family vacations. Technology isn't going to make more high grade wild tuna, or quiet walks in empty woods.

[threeseed]

No. But declining populations destroys quality of life.

With an ageing population you need someone to "work" in order to cover state-subsidised health care, housing, unemployment, pensions and other living costs for those that are still alive but not working.

And technology can absolutely solve a lot of problems. Being able to grow commercial quantities of meat in laboratories will change the world overnight. As will revolutionising public transportation, power grids, storage technologies, cars etc.

[a8da6b0c91d]

Populations are contracting because of overpopulation. I think it's clear we're in the later phases of Calhoun's rat experiments, where overcrowding sent rat birth rates crashing. In the human context I think the "overcrowding" stress includes the ever increasing complexity and flux of the society. There's not a techno/policy fix. This is a self-correcting problem that should be left alone. Fertility peaked in the industrialized world many years ago because the lands are full. Allowing immigration has been a mistake.

A contracting population is clearly a big problem for the capital class. It's bad for stock and bond holders, employers of labor, politicians, and I guess people who made poor retirement preparations. But I don't buy that it's a problem for workers Joe and Jane Blow. They eventually get cheap, high quality housing, and are more inclined to start a family.

Anyway, I also think the various futurist techno fantasies are wrong. Unless liquid thorium reactors or such-like come online next month we're entering an age of permanently escalating energy and food costs. Technology still runs on energy. The Jetsons future of electric cars and soylent for growing billions is not going to happen. The future for most is bicycles with rice and beans.

[barry-cotter]

Allowing immigration has been a mistake.

Yeah, I got mine. Fuck all those foreigners whose ancestors didn't get here fast enough.

[a8da6b0c91d]

It's a nation, not a charity operation.

[barry-cotter]

Who's asking you to pay for anything?

If you're concerned about the purity of your nation there's no need to be a stereotypical liberal about it either. Allow me to present a policy package that costs the state basically nothing and improves the lives of many not currently within the borders of your state.

1. Move from jus soli to jus sanguinus; no one without a parent who is a citizen of the state automatically becomes a citizen.

2. Any foreigner convicted of any crime gets deported. One may wish to have different visa categories for foreigners of a higher class/who have more money. The big thing is that it be clear that begging, petty theft and homelessness are deportable offences.

3. After five years you can either go home with all the money you paid in taxes/social security minus an actuarial average of your cost to the state or you can stay and forfeit it. South Korea does something roughly similar and it works pretty well at discouraging settlement.

If you're feeling really humanitarian you can allow third generation non-citizen residents over 30 an opportunity to naturalise.

[guard-of-terra]

In many countries we are not allowed to effect this policy. Instead the government lets as many low-quality labour as they want on whatever terms and then turn a blind eye on it.

[guard-of-terra]

We should invent a huge space water boiler; this way we can warm up nothern coasts of Canada and Russia and get nearly unlimited beach front.

In Stanislaw Lem's book the main character lived on Greenland warmed up from space to allow subtropical climate. I guess this idea will cause any environmentally-aware hipster from California to have a heart attack.