[PavlovsCat]

As a guy, I wonder how one can miss this. I certainly had and have my fair share of WTF moments... at some point I even vowed to make a documentary with a hidden cam about the shit some men say about women behind their back, who act completely different to their faces, but I never got around to it. And frankly, I think some women don't really want to know. Stockholm syndrome comes to mind. So my heart jumps for joy about the strong women who do point (and cuss) this stuff out. I wouldn't know how to prove it to anyone else, but maybe they can prove the opposite to me... ?

[Tehnix]

"the shit some men say about women behind their back"

or the shit men say about other men

or the shit women say about men

or the shit women say about women

... I hardly think it's inherent to men only to vent their frustrations or thoughts about a person, regardless of gender, to another person/group.

And in the case of male speaking about females, I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're in general referring to sexually-undertoned comments about their appearances? I don't think anything will be able to take that away, since we are, as men, by nature (unless you're homosexual of course, but I'd say it's fair to call that a minority) attracted to women and vice verse...

[PavlovsCat]

FWIW I didn't downvote you, and upvoted you to undo that a little. If people disagree, let them use words instead of buttons, geez...

> I hardly think it's inherent to men only to vent their frustrations or thoughts about a person

Or their disrespect, for that matter. What gets me the most is the difference between "public face" and "bro face" I've seen with some, it can be quite the abyss. Sure it's just anecdotal, but my anecdotes are what they are. As a woman on reddit put it: some men are gorillas wearing men suits, and women, once burned, have to make super extra sure to confirm they're not dealing with one of those before making themselves vulnerable.

I know to a degree this is true the other way around, too... like, I once had a SO who basically wanted to marry me, have kids, and sleep around behind my back (this is not speculation either, she basically ended up admitting as much), and I know another woman who stopped taking the pill because she wanted a baby from her SO, who didn't want one. Not cool at all, and that the child turned out great and they both love it, though they're not together anymore, doesn't change that. But still, for every one such story I know, I know 3 about things like cigarette burns or rape. Still anecdotal, sure, but those anecdotes do irk me.

Ask women close to you about this. Hopefully they will tell you I am full of shit. But maybe, just maybe, they will relate some things to you that will make your toenails curl up.

> And in the case of male speaking about females, I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're in general referring to sexually-undertoned comments about their appearances?

No, I was thinking of more vicious things as that, more like something akin to racist jokes. Though reducing people to their sexuality sucks too, I guess that can go both ways. The power differential however, and the smugness and cruelty it results in for some men, doesn't, not really.

> I don't think anything will be able to take that away, since we are, as men, by nature (unless you're homosexual of course, but I'd say it's fair to call that a minority) attracted to women and vice verse...

I'm not talking about being attracted to, I'm talking about looking down upon, and seeking to control and use. And NEVER would I say "all men do this" -- but enough, too many men, did/do this around me, and the more intelligent a person is, the more subtle and convoluted it gets. Sometimes it's "just" a friendly, but condescending attitude.. not as bad as other things, but still not good enough.