[Jongseong]

How does any of that contradict the assertion that antisemitism is older than Socialism? Are you denying that antisemitism continued under the Soviet Union, even after the death of Stalin, couched in the language of anti-Zionism?

If you are saying that being Jewish was only one of several reasons for being discriminated against in the Soviet Union, then I agree. If you deny that Jewishness had nothing to do with it and it all had to do with being intellectuals, not having the right connections, etc., then you are losing me.

[altero]

> Are you denying that antisemitism continued under the Soviet Union

Yes I do. There were so many Jews in soviet party, there is even "theory" that soviet revolution was Jewish conspiracy. [1]. Stalin initially supported Israel state with weapons.

Antisemitism started in 60ties, after Israel becomed US oriented and several people from soviet union emigrated there. After that several soviet jews had relatives on west and were perceived as 'politically unreliable' and potential spies. There were mainly political reasons for discrimination, it really turned into antisemitism in 90ties after soviet union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism#Jews_in_the_B...

[Jongseong]

So the whole Doctor's Plot purge in the fifties just so happened to target mostly Jews and people with Jewish names? This was the most overtly antisemitic episode in Soviet history. Just because Jews were overrepresented in the Bolshevik Revolution, it doesn't mean that antisemitism simply disappeared overnight. Remember, the most prominent Jew in the Bolshevik Revolution was Leon Trotsky, who became Stalin's enemy.

As for Stalin's initial support of Israel, well, he initially signed a secret non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany as well. One can read too much into foreign policy decisions.

Stalin, despite being non-Russian himself, targeted non-Russians in the Soviet Union in purges and deportations on the pretext that they were politically unreliable and potential spies. You can choose to take these excuses at face value, but in the end you have to recognize that in effect they suffered largely because of being the wrong ethnicity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Unio...

[altero]

Stalin killed millions, mostly Russians. For example huge part of army officers were executed just before German invasion.

He hated everyone, Jews were not exception.

[Jongseong]

Yes, Stalin killed people of all backgrounds. But so-called reactionary nationalities were specifically targeted for NKVD operations. For example, the NKVD would round up people with Polish-sounding names from telephone books during the Great Purge. Entire peoples were deported to Central Asia—you can't deny an ethnic dimension to his Terror.

Whatever Stalin's initial intentions were for the Doctors' Plot case, it ended up taking on a clearly antisemitic character, with the media hyping up the threat of Zionism. We may note that while Khrushchev denounced the Doctors' Plot as having been fabricated by Stalin, he didn't denounce the antisemitic rhetoric.

[altero]

As far as I know NKVD did not massacred Jews. A few dozens arrests and closed elite universities does not really compare to tragedies of other nations (hint: I am Polish).

Anti-zionism is not antisemitism.

[Jongseong]

My point is that there were instances of Jews being discriminated against in the Soviet Union, and in the case of the Doctors' Plot, even being targeted in purges. I agree that many other nations suffered far worse under the Soviet regime, though the Soviet Jews obviously suffered much more under different hands during WWII.

Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism, but when Anti-Zionist rhetoric is used to condemn anyone with Jewish names, that sounds pretty antisemitic to me.

[platform]

@Altero. You are wrong on many different levels.

Antisemitism in USSR was rampant before 60s as well, and in Eastern Slavic regions in general, even before USSR

Read history of cities such as Gomel or Bobruysk.

http://www.jewishgomel.com/en/Jewish-history-og-Gomel "... The wave of pogroms in Imperial Russia at the beginning of the twentieth century did not bypass Gomel. From August 29 - September 1, 1903, there was a pogrom in Gomel, during which ten Jews were killed, many were wounded and much Jewish property was looted. A Jewish self-defense was able to rebuff the pogrom, the first time in the history of the Russian Empire. After the pogrom there was a famous trial in Gomel (October 1904 - January 1905, November 1906), where not just the perpetrators of the pogrom were tried but also the 36 members of the Jewish self-defense. ...."

Also please do not forget one of the main drivers for the subsequent prosecutions, a document forgery called 'Protocols'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_...

"... The Protocols appeared in print in the Russian Empire as early as 1903. The antisemitic tract was published as a serialized set of articles in Znamya, a Black Hundreds newspaper owned by Pavel Krushevan. It appeared again in 1905 as a final chapter (Chapter XII) of a second edition of Velikoe v malom i antikhrist (The Great in the Small & Antichrist), a book by Serge Nilus. In 1906, it appeared in pamphlet form edited by G. Butmi.[25] ..."

So your claim "... Antisemitism started in 60ties, after Israel becomed US oriented and several people from soviet union emigrated there. ..." is patently false.

This story in the OP brought tears to my eyes. I was no where near as good in mathematics as E Frenkel, but having a Jewish mother, and half Armenian father (and therefore Armenian last name) -- insured that even if I had 5 times more talent I did -- I would still not win the admission game.

Essentially the 'rektor' (or the dean) of University I was going to, apparently said (and, no, I did not hear it directly) -- that '... he was not going to prepare workforce for israel, and that's why admitting Jews was not in his interest).

Having parents whose last name is Armenian or/and Jewish-sounding, is the an obstacle that could realistically be overcome either by avoiding it (e.g. going to a place where Jews could get in) or 'special friends', or a bribe.

My grandparents, especially my maternal granddad had it much worse. Every time I think I am stressing over things -- all I had to do is to remember what he went through (Buchenwald than Russian prison, where he was tortured by authorities asking him how he could survive Buchenvald while being a Jew)

Important though that neither my grandparents, nor I, nor my parents -- ever wanted to have some kind of 'affirmative' action or 'institutionalized help' as a repayment for previous mistreatment. Instead, all we ever wanted is to be treated 'the same'.

I rarely write or reply on this kinds of topics, but seeing this story, and then a Altero's statement based, I presume, on the lack of knowledge, elicited this reply.

Apologies if it was a bit emotional.

[ommunist]

Emm... if memory serves, Zionism is quite a new thing, and antisemitism prospered since we collectively killed Jesus.

[Jongseong]

Take a look at what I said. I said that after the death of Stalin, antisemitism in the Soviet Union was couched in the language of anti-Zionism. Stalin died in 1953, by which time the state of Israel was already a few years old. Incidentally, Zionism dates from the end of the 19th century.

[ommunist]

You maybe quite right, but from materials I presented in this thread one may suggest that there was a policy of enforced brain supply to regional applied sciences institutions, that is why guys were refused entry to Moscow best universities. The reasons for this hidden regulation may have been purely pragmatic.