[XorNot]

Bitcoin being deflationary, the value will never settle. No government wants deflationary money, and you don't either because no one who doesn't have it has any reason to accept permanent servitude from a deflationary currency.

Or as I like to put it: why do you think you should get wealthy for doing literally nothing? Not investing, not loading, not accepting any risk, not working?

[PureApeshit]

computer power is deflationary, tablet i bought for 200 euros 2 years ago, oday i can buy same specs for 59 euros... still noone waits and holds till stuff get cheaper, same with bitcoin it will only help environment for massive stockpiling of goods will be bad.

You are not getting wealthy for nothing, you get wealthy for restraining your consumption, which is major problem of todays world, trust me im homeless(for proof can check me on youtube channel AngriestCat) and amounts of good food i find in supermarket trash is ridiculous.

[XorNot]

The computer you bought 2 years ago didn't increase in computing power in that time. A computer from 2 years ago is not worth more today.

But wealth in a deflationary currency does.

The rest of your argument about curtailing consumption is an irrelevant tangent here.

[PureApeshit]

Point is wealth in a deflationary currency is increasing, because of worth of things, without things currency is just useless numbers. If all items on world stayed the same, the value of currency would stay same too.

My point with computers was that hording currency will not affect the markets, same as computer market is not crashing because everyone is waiting for better computer for same price next year! Essential expences must be done and environment factor comes in and is important, because inflation currency lose value all time so big merchant is less afraid to just stock himself with huge amounts of items, even they get outdated he still will make profit selling them cheaper, compared to if he had just stored value in cash and lost that value to inflation.

[XorNot]

"Computing power" is not a currency - you can't store value in it, it's transient and consumed as soon as it's produced.

The time-computing-cost output of a given computer decreases with each new model released. Each new model of CPU does more calculations using less power, or does more calculations over a previously unobtainable timespan.

Your computer, sitting in front of you, does the same, but the amount you spent on it, it now does less.

Computers are massively inflationary - it's why people only buy them when they absolutely need them. It's why you have 1, not 20 as an investment. It's why the second hand market for PCs is terrible - because they're worth far less each month after you buy them then they are new from a manufacturer who is constantly producing more.

And of course more importantly to all of this: computers have value! They do things! They produce value for people by owning them. "Money" does not. Just having it does absolutely nothing!

[PureApeshit]

Ofcourse it does! Having it means USING IT, are you saying that we should stop use money? Even i totaly agree on stoping using it, my homeless tribe thing - http://postandrate.com/homeless-tribe-drastic-improvement-of... , but ofcourse that is huge step forward and not very realistic yet... basicaly if you horde bitcoins you are using them! and unless you horde 100% of all bitcoins you are just a simple user!!! and i again say that value of it being deflationary and not NEUTRAL like supposedly perfect money should be is thath it discourages mindless consumption and as you yourself say encourages buying when you absolutely need stuff.

[XorNot]

I don't think you understand what "investment" does in the economy.

If a currency is deflationary, there's no point to investment - investment is risky, whereas simply holding it gives it more value (this presumes a stable store of value and no alternative currencies).

This tanks economic growth, because beyond a certain quantity of wealth your savings appreciate in value faster then you need to spend them to stay alive. Whereas below a certain value of wealth, no matter how hard you work or how much you save, you will never reach that point - because you have to reduce your savings to buy the necessities of life.

Of course, its not a stable situation because the economy that goes into a deflationary spiral soon collapses, the rich get murdered, and everyone moves back into a currency which supports a proper debt-system and doesn't doom people to servitude for an actual idle rich.