[marknutter]

I'm probably going to be buying one of these today so I've been doing a bit of research. Turns out most everything is user replaceable; most importantly, the processor. So you can save your self a fair bit of cash by buying the base model and upgrading later as needed, which is what I intend to do.

[josephlord]

Xeon processors don't seem to drop in price the way the consumer ones do so you might not save as much as you expect.

Edit: It may still be worth buying the base model now and upgrading immediately if the Apple markup is large.

[josephlord]

Specifically on the processor it may be cheaper to get the base and replace it immediately for £1800 [1] than to buy the top of the line than to pay Apple the £2800 extra it seems to ask for what appears to be the same processor (cache, speed at least). And you might be able to sell the original.

[1] http://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel-xeon-e5-2697-v2-s-2011-...

[MBCook]

If I'm going to drop $5000 on a computer that's not meant to be upgraded like that, I'm not going to immediately take it all the way apart and risk ruining it to save $1400. I would either pay it or not buy the upgrade.

[josephlord]

I wouldn't either (would probably just go for the cheaper one if I was going Mac Pro which I am not) and the 8-core might be the better upgrade anyway looking at the Anandtech review.

[marknutter]

The Apple markup is large.

[sjtgraham]

No http://bgr.com/2013/12/26/mac-pro-windows-diy-cost/

[brudgers]

This is a game the pro-Apple press loves to play - cherry pick parts for the PC based upon comparison to the often unique part numbers Apple uses (and which they buy in bulk) and ignore arbitrage.

How much would a MacPro comparable to this Dell cost?

    Dell Precision T7600 
    $12,697.60 
 
    Two Intel® Xeon® Processors E5-2687W (Eight Core, 3.1GHz, 20M, 8.0 GT/s, Turbo+)  
    128GB, DDR3 RDIMM Memory,1600MHz, ECC (8 x 16GB DIMMs)  
    Dual 4.0GB NVIDIA® Quadro® K5000, Dual MON, 2 DP & 1 DVI  
    PERC H310 for Dell Precision, SATA/SAS 6Gb/s, RAID 0/1/5/10 (8 ports)  
    Dual 512GB, 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Drive  
    6X Blu-ray Disc (BD-RE) Burner  
    Speakers Dell AX210 Speakers  
    3 Year ProSupport Service with 3 Year NBD Onsite Service after Remote Diagnosis  
    3 Year Accidental Damage Service

If the rules of the game were reversed, you'd have to buy two 64GB MacPros, an external Blu-Ray burner, and go to a third party for a three year accidental damage contract and a third party for three years of Next Business Day onsite service.

[barrkel]

You should do the homework yourself, rather than relying on an article whose motivations you can't be sure of.

It's awkward to match the Apple machine exactly because of the non-standard graphics hardware. The D300/500 are approximately cut-down versions of W7000/8000 with reduced VRAM.

I specced up a machine on newegg and other sources for the CPU. E5-1660 V2 (3.7Ghz with 15M cache), LGA 2011 motherboard, 64G ECC RAM, 2xW7000 graphics, 480G PCIe SSD (2x240G), and a CPU cooler / case / power supply to round it out (not looking to buy the most expensive options here). Came to about $4800.

An Apple.com Mac Pro machine with 3.5Ghz / 12M cache CPU (worse), 64G memory, dual D500 GPU (worse) and 256G PCIe (worse) comes to $5200.

On the pro Apple side, you get a very nice case and a lot of integrated wireless stuff, Thunderbolt etc. On the anti Apple side, you get much better expandability (the option to go dual socket in particular) and upgradability, and an overall more powerful system for nearly 10% less.

[marknutter]

From this article, going with the D700 saves you over $6000: http://architosh.com/2013/10/the-mac-pro-so-whats-a-d300-d50...

The D700 is equivelant to the AMD FirePro W9000 which is listed at $3,399.99 on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/AMD-FirePro-Retail-Graphics-100-505632...

AMD really wanted their cards in this machine I guess..

[wmf]

Or maybe the D700 is equivalent to a 7970.

[arrrg]

So … you are saying the markup is anything but large. It’s a tiny markup, especially considering the case you get. (I wonder what noise your built PC will make.)

[epmatsw]

Yep. $400 on a $5000 machine? For me, that'd easily be covered by the case, acoustics, and ability to use OSX. Not to mention the knowledge that I've got warranty on the full machine, not just on each individual part. My custom-built desktop is fine for gaming, but if I'm dropping $5k for a professional machine, I want some guarantees.

[AmVess]

My built PC is pleasantly quiet. It's also almost .00008% as sexy as this little Mac Pro.

[Jtsummers]

For the whole machine, but a quick check of the configuration on the processor (and only the processor):

Base system options:

  3.7GHz quad-core with 10MB of L3 cache 
  3.5GHz 6-core with 12MB of L3 cache [Add $500.00] 
  3.0GHz 8-core with 25MB of L3 cache [Add $2,000.00] 
  2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache [Add $3,500.00] 

[1] seems to be equivalent to the 12-core option at Newegg. So purchased there it's $2750, a savings of some $750 (less tax and shipping) versus the upgrade option through Apple. The overall price is better than a DIY equivalent, but for the components this path can still make a difference.

[1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116...

[marknutter]

You're mistaken. The savings is in the GPU, not the processor: http://techgage.com/article/apples-newest-mac-pro-costs-less...

[Sanddancer]

There are flaws with the comparison. The W9000 isn't just a faster chip, it also has features, like ECC support, that the d700 doesn't have. Additionally, with a PC, one has the option of going with NVidia and the Titan, which is something that you are incapable of doing with the mac pro.

[nacs]

People who buy D700's don't want Titans. The Titan is a gaming card not a workstation card.

One could say your comparison is apples and... nevermind.

[asdfs]

The D700 doesn't have ECC? I'm surprised by that one. That seems like one of the defining features of workstation cards.

[r00fus]

Only if you value your time low.

It takes time to ensure the components are supported and work well together, and supported by the OS drivers.

So cost comparisons should either take into account integration-testing and driver support, or compare against a vendor that provides that (i.e., Dell, HP, etc).

I've tried the hackintosh route and it was fun for the first few weeks, but got tiresome after that. Windows or Linux with randomly chosen componentry is better, but not without it's pitfalls.

[e40]

I really want one, but $5400 is too much for the base ($3000) and the disk expansion via Thunderbolt 2 ($2400 for the 6 bay one).

I'm currently looking into a hackintosh that'll set me back about $1700:

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/envoy510/saved/3dCe

I just can't justify the $5400 vs $1700, even though I really do love the design of the new Mac Pro. Also, mine has 32GB of RAM instead of 12GB.

[atonse]

That list is very different from what's in the Mac Pro.

1) You've picked an i7. The Mac Pro uses a Xeon. They're way more expensive. 2) The Mac Pro has ECC RAM which is more expensive. 3) You picked one video card, and it's probably a gamers card (not a GP-GPU like the FirePros, again, MUCH cheaper) 4) OCZ SSDs which have dodgy reliability and are SATA, not PCI-E 5) No Thunderbolt controllers 6) A 750-watt power supply - The mac pro gets by with 450w.

If you assemble a list of parts that are actually similar to what's in the Mac Pro, you'd probably end up closer to $5,400.

And none of that counting the desk space you save, the noise characteristics, the expandability (PCI-E speed and 6 hot-pluggable devices for each thunderbolt 2 port).

Where you're more likely to save money generally with Apple products is with upgrades, as some have pointed out with the Xeons.

[e40]

OK, OCZ's replaced with Samsung's:

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/envoy510/saved/3iHB

I'm looking into mobo's that support ECC and are Hackintosh ready.

[e40]

I realize it is not equivalent. I never said it was. It fulfills the needs I have and is a very nice set of hardware.

[AmVess]

Prepare to be disappointed with a Hackintosh, especially if you've never built one before.

[geuis]

I can't disagree more. I converted my gaming machine to a hackintosh several years ago. My hardware is now a few years behind but it still runs great. It sat unused for months after I built it originally because using Windows was just painful. It's been my primary machine since changing.

Mind you the I didn't select the hardware with the intention of putting Mac OS on it. Doing system updates is pretty easy process. The only issues I have are with sound kexts but it's an easy fix. Most updates pose no problems.

The process is much much easier than I used to be.

[e40]

And it's much easier if you pick hardware that is known to work.

I think AmVess is just trolling. Over at the forums on tonymacx86.com, there are a lot of happy people.

[e40]

Why? Without any information, your comment just looks trollish.

[xentronium]

Because most stock parts are slightly incompatible with OS X in very annoying ways.

[yeukhon]

If you want that Apple quality, get a Macbook Pro instead?

[e40]

You must have missed that I have 6 disks to connect.