[tokenadult]

if you're smart and "hungry" in China there is a ton of opportunity. Why on earth would you go to the US?

The freedom to criticize the government openly and vote in contested elections for the national leadership? That works for a lot of the Chinese immigrants I know in the United States. (Net immigration flows from China to the United States are still strongly positive in the direction of smart people leaving China and settling in the United States.) India actually presents the more interesting example, as people in India enjoy press freedom and free elections, but still find reason to move to the United States.

[jibiki]

So people immigrate because they want to vote in US elections? What kind of change in American policy do they wish to effect? Wanting to vote seems like a very abstract motivation for making such an immense personal sacrifice. All of the Chinese immigrants I know moved for more obvious reasons (personal gain, marriage, etc.) And none of them seem particularly critical of the US government, or the Chinese government, for that matter. (But most of them work in academia, so take that with a grain of salt.)

[sp332]

People move to somewhere they will have a say in local government. Casting a vote now and then is a very small part of that participation. Or maybe they're interested in politics and are sick of not being able to have a real debate.

[tokenadult]

maybe they're interested in politics and are sick of not being able to have a real debate.

This correctly characterizes many of the Chinese people I met in the United States in 1989 as part of the democracy movement at that time. Many of them were physical scientists or biological scientists or students about to enter those occupations when I met them, but they were deeply interested in politics and organized a "salon" with some very interesting discussions of politics, including guest speakers from newly post-communist Poland and public speeches by democracy movement activists who were able to escape from China after the post-Tian An Men Square Massacre crackdown.

[sho]

Consider the possibility that the Chinese people you know are self-selected democracy fans in general and US democracy fans in particular. While the number of such people might be quite high in absolute terms, relatively speaking I don't believe they comprise a large or even significant part of the Chinese population.

A typical American might be quite surprised to learn that his/her country's democratic process is not viewed with universal envy or even respect. Out of the Chinese people I know I have never heard even once that they would like to move to the USA because they seek political "freedom". In fact, quite the opposite; if anything they'd move to the USA despite the government. And it is hard to disagree; I personally have difficulty viewing democracy in the USA as a system worth copying. Don't think I'm singling out the USA either; many 1st world countries are single party states in all but name, IMO, Japan the undisputed leader in that ignominious race.

Anyway, this is a huge topic and not well dealt with in this format. If you're interested, here is an interesting translation I read recently of a Chinese perspective on democracy. I found it well written, accurate and fairly representative.

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090623_1.htm

[tumult]

legitimate question: are you one of the information/opinion disseminators under charge of the Chinese government?

i'm not trying to be a dick, i really am curious. i'm not so closed-minded as to disregard what was written in your post, rather, it was that my "copypasta" alarms went off when i read it (and the linked article.)

[sho]

I cannot believe you would seriously ask such a question, but the answer is "of course not".

I can't speak for the article I linked to - it might have been copied from somewhere, though I hadn't seen it before if so, and I believe that blog to be pretty reliable. But my comment was composed on the spot. I am not sure if being mistaken for professionally written propaganda is a compliment or not - I guess so? I was just trying to add an alternative perspective, and not even a very controversial one.

Just out of interest, what exactly did I say to make you ask such a thing?

[tumult]

very proper and well written, with detached and unspecific wording. a general sense of disapproval towards americans and japanese. an implication that people have a misunderstanding of the world in terms of governance and foreign perception (which i agree with.)

you could have used that post body as a reply to many things, it's very generic.

you can get mad mad at me if you want; i wasn't trying to piss you off, i wanted to see what would happen if i asked up front.