[mcantelon]

I am not making a value judgement, simply pointing out facts. Mandela's organization killed innocent people and tortured enemies. Why they did this is entirely understandable, given the circumstances, but pretending it didn't happen and painting Mandela as a pacifist, when he was in fact a pragmatist that never condemned violence wholesale as Western pacifists do, is to distort history.

[BenoitEssiambre]

ah yes the mythical "western pacifist" who thinks violence is never justified and that, for example, police forces should not forcefully arrest violent criminals but limit themselves to trying to convince them of going to jail.

You've made yourself quite a frail stawman. You will find that this "western pacifist" you speak of is a figment of your imagination and doesn't exists in any serious form.

[mcantelon]

The decade or so I spent involved in activism in a variety of organizations is, hopefully, not a figment of my imagination.