[lgieron]

In my region, there are a lot of able-bodied man in their forties and fifties who, thanks to the state policy, are already retired. The sad fact is that, due to a ton of free time that's suddenly appeared in their lives, a lot of them have become drunks.

I fear that for every person doing something meaningful with the freedom given to them via basic income, there'll be 10 or 20 who become couch poatoes or worse, self-destruct (booze, drugs, gambling) out of boredom.

[chongli]

I fear that for every person doing something meaningful with the freedom given to them via basic income, there'll be 10 or 20 who become couch poatoes or worse, self-destruct (booze, drugs, gambling) out of boredom.

Do you realize what you're saying here? That people should be forced into wage slavery to keep them from becoming lazy or alcoholic or drug addicts. That's an incredibly regressive position to take.

Basic income should be given to all. This gives everyone more freedom. If people have mental health problems including substance abuse, they should be given treatment.

Throughout the history of human civilizations we have stood on the shoulders of giants. We have built ourselves up from nothing and all of that progress has been measured by our ability to reduce our dependence on a subsistence lifestyle, freeing people to innovate and create great works of cultural or artistic importance. Now we are finally nearing the end of this long road. We are finally approaching complete freedom from labour as a survival necessity. And now people are complaining that this is a bad thing?

[handzhiev]

"That people should be forced into wage slavery to keep them from becoming lazy or alcoholic or drug addicts."

No. People should be forced to do something useful, because the goods don't come out of the blue. This is not the same as "wage slavery".

[agilebyte]

What if goods are produced by automation and where we cannot automate we have people that want to work. What kind of task would you give to all the other people?

Edit: I am alluding to the fact that we are way past full employment.

[handzhiev]

I don't think we have past full employment. We are not even close to it, at all. I'll give you several entirely random but real examples. The street here needs new paving. There is no public transport in our town and no taxi after 6PM (need drivers and support staff). I need someone to fix my roof, and it's hard to find good one. There is a need of better trains, better cars, better software, better technologies, more original movies, better restaurants... And someone to check my teeth more frequently (zero good dentists in town). I have tons of work in my backyard as well. There are loads and loads of work to do, and it's all work which can't be automated. Work is not something that will ever finish unless of course we want to stop progress.

[chongli]

And yet we have tens of thousands of people bloating up government at all levels with what are essentially "make-work" jobs. Likewise for universities and colleges which are bloated with administrators and other non-essential staff. Our economy is absolutely filled with redundancy for the simple reason that people need to work in order to pay the bills.

[gnaritas]

> I fear

Well there's your problem, fear is not the proper state of mind with which to make good decisions.

[agilebyte]

If it were 1:10-20 then these people would have already voted in basic income platforms into government.

I also suspect that a lot of these guys have been trained for manual work that is, regardless of basic income, being moved overseas and automated. The work is going/gone.

Edit: Also, I would highly respect any manual labourer who would stay in their job even though they were sure of their income. I think that is a useful currency too.

[scotty79]

They turn into drunks not beacuse they have too much free time and money. It's because they were raise in a culture that said that a man is only worth as much as his job. Now they feel worthless and self-destruct. They also are too old to use modern entertainment. With internet, electronics and wide variety of recreational consumer goods hardly anyone should have become drunk to not be bored.