[benjamincburns]

Consumers need to be educated, too. Anyone using an A19 in a can-style fixture is wasting energy by lighting things they don't need lit. Use something directional like a PAR or a BR, and you can reduce the amount of wattage consumed to light a given area.

Further, LED manufacturers design their directional lamps with these applications in mind. See the spiral pattern [1] on the heat sink around Lighting Science PAR bulbs? That's designed to use the thermal differential to create a nice air flow up into the fixture so that it may be used in a recessed or other partially-enclosed fixture.

1: http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/100560/LED-PAR3011HE25WW.ht...

[Pxtl]

It's a light bulb.

A light bulb.

This isn't a car, which you expect to require some expertise. It's not a furnace that will be primarily handled by an HVAC specialist. It's a light bulb. Consumers have a reasonable expectation that devices like this Just Work. If the device fails to meet its promised service-level without a dozen asterisks in its usage? It's not meeting its intended purpose and it's defective.

Consumers should not have to meticulously research every small purchase. Simple, small purchases of replacement parts should not require reading a 10-page instruction manual of 6-point font, especially since you didn't get this manual until after you got the damned thing home.

By allowing manufacturers to sell these defective devices, we don't just hurt consumers, we hurt the environment with unnecessary waste of electronics, and we hurt the real, quality manufacturers who want to sell good stuff but can't because there's no way to tell consumers "all the other crap on the shelf will break in under two years and we won't" so they end up getting crushed by people who cut corners.

[benjamincburns]

I hope you don't work in UX.

"Educating the consumer" is the onus of the manufacturers. It doesn't mean 10-page instruction manuals with 6-point font or hours of meticulous research [edit: this is a horrible way to educate consumers]. In this case it probably means packaging and labeling which plainly states "not for use in recessed fixtures" in a way which most anyone would understand. This could be a sticker which says just that, it could be iconography, it could be an obnoxious DVD on loop in the lighting aisle at Home Depot, or it could be all of those things.

Yes, it's a light bulb (a light bulb!) but that doesn't mean manufacturers shouldn't attempt to get consumers to use it properly.

[Pxtl]

If your product requires that you "educate consumers" away from using it in a way that they can perfectly reasonably expect it to work? Your product is defective. A big warning label on the front of the box is the only reasonable accommodation for this, but in the real world this kind of defect ends up in the fine print.

If you want to make a special light-bulb that is only compatible with a narrowly defined set of environments, then make your own socket that is only compatible with your bulb and then sell fixtures that provide the needed environment.

If you want to use a standard socket, then you have to take the bad with the good and also deal with the kind of environments you'd find. This is the same bullcrap with devices that completely fail to charge on 0.5Watt USB power-supplies. If you can't charge off a standard USB connection, then you shouldn't use a USB port, because USB defines 0.5Watts and your device isn't USB-compatible. Legally required to support USB? Then stop pussy-footing around and actually support it instead of exclusively supporting a 1 or 2 watt perversion of the standard.

[annnnd]

I hope YOU don't work in UX... ;)

The need to educate a customer usually surfaces when someone was unable to produce a proper product. Sure, you need to warn users when your product can't be used under some circumstances, but if possible, you should aim at fulfilling the users' expectations instead.

[benjamincburns]

Touché. The comment was mostly directed at the hyperbole of "10 page manuals" and such.

I totally agree with what you're saying, though.

The issue at hand is that consumers want something that is impossible for manufacturers to give to them. That is, a 100% efficient lighting solution which shines light exactly when they want it, exactly how they want it, and lasts forever. Consumers have gotten used to a market where there has been almost no innovation for over a hundred years (in the driver side, fixtures are a different story). Now that there's some diversity in the market, consumers are unhappy because it's not matching expectations. The only way that will change is if manufacturers properly set expectations.

[JoeAltmaier]

I'm not so sure we won't see the desired solution, and soon. Pretty good illumination over a reasonable field would do the job. LED bulbs may get there sooner than you think, unless their reputation is irredeemably tarnished by the defective (read: not meeting minimum expectation) products being overmarketed today.

[R_Edward]

Now that dimmable 60-watt equivalent LED bulbs have dropped into the sub-sawbuck range, I was examining the packaging at my local Home Despot store. I remarked to the salesman who asked to help me how the iconography on the front of the package suggests that the bulb is suitable for use in your standard ceiling-mounted light fixture--which is usually enclosed--but the fine print on the back explicitly states that the bulb is not intended for use in enclosed fixtures. He agreed that the ceiling fixture icon was misleading, and that the fine print is what I must consider most authoritative.

He did note that the Cree brand bulbs are actually rated for use in enclosed fixtures, but alas, they're also more expensive at the moment than these other guys.

[nitrogen]

Lighting is a horribly underappreciated aspect of modern life. "A light bulb is a lightbulb" sounds rather like "a car is a car." Placement of lighting, color temperature, thermal characteristics of a particular light, etc. should all be considered carefully. It's not such a stretch to expect consumers not to put certain bulbs in certain places. It is a stretch to expect one type of bulb to work in every place, and have the desired aesthetic.

[Pxtl]

> Lighting is a horribly underappreciated aspect of modern life.

Everything is a horribly underappreciated aspect of modern life. You'll hear the same sentence with one word changed uttered by audiophiles, vegans, electricians, foodies, urbanists, doctors, social justice advocates, janitors, seniors, juniors, teachers, genealogists, biologists, ecologists, chemists, astrophysicists, philosophers, grammarians, body-builders, trainspotters, mechanics, open-source software fans, designers, photographers, documentarians, readers, writers, gun-nuts, gun-haters, pastors, prudes, perverts and relationship councillors.

We, collectively, no longer give a fuck. We are out of fucks to give. We are way past peak-fucks and into a severe fucks crisis. We have zero fucks.

I just want to buy something and have it work. If the colour temperature is wrong and the aesthetics are therefore sub-optimal? Well that reflects the effort I put in. If it burns out in a week? It's defective, full-stop.

[Daniel_Newby]

> Simple, small purchases of replacement parts should not require reading a 10-page instruction manual of 6-point font, especially since you didn't get this manual until after you got the damned thing home.

One wonders what the owners of gaslights thought when they bought their first simple "Just Works" light bulb.

And of course many of us were there for Grandpa Versus the Microwave Oven.

[Lightbody]

It's not that simple, sadly. My house has 100+ canned recessed lights, all of which had been filled with Sylvania 50W Halogen PAR30 & PAR30LN bulbs. I have been desperately trying to find a replacement LED that matches the same warmth and color.

This bulb claims to be the exact replacement:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00467E3LA/

But yet this one and others that have similar lumens, temperature, and equivalent watts all don't even get close to the warmth that the halogens produced.

Fortunately, I found a cheap alternative:

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-424374-7-watt-Household-Dimmab...

It's the A19 40W that the article cautions against, and it looks slightly less sexy in the recessed can, but the color almost exactly matches the halogens I have (except when dimmed -- nothing can match the fireplace-like glow).

What's weird is that the lumens and temperature for that bulb aren't even close to what the halogens claim, but they look almost identical. Which has made me wonder if this switch to LED is way more complex than just those two measurements :P

[benjamincburns]

> (except when dimmed -- nothing can match the fireplace-like glow).

I can't talk specifics (under NDA from a former employer), but this is a problem for which solutions exist. I don't know that manufacturers think there's much of a market there, however.

> Which has made me wonder if this switch to LED is way more complex than just those two measurements :P

It is. There are a bajillion things going on. One which you've already noticed is how dimming impacts color temperature. CRI is also a huge issue. Then there's the optics - LEDs are very directional, so they require pretty advanced lenses in order to achieve a desired lighting pattern [1]. Optics impact all kinds of things, including color temperature, and since the development cost is high you can expect cheap brands to skimp there. If you're comparing them by looking directly at the bulb, internal glare/reflection is hard to match as well.

I'd still caution against using the A19s in a recessed fixture. It's not a safety issue (that I'm aware of), but you definitely won't get the rated life out of the bulb.

Out of curiosity, did you try an LED BR30? I think you might find one from a quality manufacturer to be a bit better than the A19.

1: $20 says the lighting pattern on the Sylvania LED is smoother/more regular than the Sylvania halogen, but I'm biased since I know the guy who designed the lens.

[ScottBurson]

I just put four of these in my kitchen and I think they do a remarkably good job of simulating incandescent color:

http://www.amazon.com/Ecosmart-Powered-Recessed-Light-Dimmab...

[colechristensen]

http://www.switchlightingco.com produces excellent (though expensive) LED lights which are, I'd say, 95% of what I could want out of a halogen replacement.