[kennethtilton]

Ha-ha, quote further! "They don't test their code at all (and instead run through tests manually..". Actually, I meant to mention that as another sign of cultdom: the verb "test" now means "automated test". Manually testing does not count, nor do any of the other ways we can get to correctnes without TDD.

[jdietrich]

Your conflation of TDD with automated testing is not helpful.

As software developers, the essence of our profession is to automate repetitive tasks. If you have a rigorous manual testing methodology for your software, it should be a trivial task to turn that test specification into automated tests. The absence of a suite of automated tests is a major red flag in any non-trivial software project - it strongly suggests that either the developers do not care about quality, that they do not understand their work well enough to manage quality in a systematic way, or that they are too haphazard and disorganised to manage their project appropriately.

[kennethtilton]

I am just waiting for someone to ask, "How else can one achieve correctness?" :)

But cults do not do that, they just accuse non-believers, in this case, that they do not care about correctness.

That's like saying Messner and Habeler did not care about safety because they climbed extreme pitches unroped where other pairs roped up and moved one at a time. But M&H were very good climbers and got up and down twice as fast as the others, who doubled their risk of the weather turning on them by being "safe". If you know your mountaineering, the latter is usually how folks die on mountains.

[zura]

Automated testing is not necessary TDD.

[kennethtilton]

OK, I'll stop saying TDD. :)