[marcus_holmes]

yes, Uncle Bob, we do need hordes of novices.

Because in the days of yore only monks and priests knew how to read and write, and that was bad. Getting everyone to read and write is good. 90% of what they write will be crap, but that's better than not having them write at all.

Obviously they're not going to be writing commercial or critical systems. Learning to code helps people deal with technology, but it doesn't make them professional coders. Just like learning to write a shopping list is useful but doesn't make me a journalist.

Opposing people learning things because what they might create with that knowledge is just wrong.

[jasonlotito]

> Opposing people learning things because what they might create with that knowledge is just wrong

He doesn't oppose people learning things.

> Obviously they're not going to be writing commercial or critical systems.

No. That's exactly what he's talking about. The trend to hire more people rather than better people.

FTA: "Do we really need to keep on recruiting and training cannon fodder to throw at software projects? Or should we rethink this."

Take a few minutes to read the article.

[venomsnake]

I had a big project failed once because at the beginning out rockstar programmer/ninja/free electron (and he was a genuine one) threw a temper tantrum and said - I am bored of working with Microchip Pics (don't worry if you are young and don't know what that is) I want to use something more powerful - so we switched vendors, the stack to keep him satisfied. It went downhill. Sometimes you need mediocre guy for a non demanding job.

A bored talented programmer can sink a project as good as incompetent one.

[GVIrish]

I think what you encountered is a different type of trap, the trap of the talented jerk. The guy/gal who is brilliant, so they're allowed to get away with a crappy and/or irrational attitude. Sometimes this works out well, but other times it'd be better to hire someone may not be of the same caliber skills-wise, but has a better attitude and is more pragmatic.

Your coworker might not have been a true "jerk" per se, but he certainly sounded irrational.

[marcus_holmes]

I did... the point with people learning to code is precisely not that they're going to get hired to write code (that's what we professionals do).

The current craze for teaching people to code that he references has (in my experience at least) got nothing to do with creating a horde of junior devs, but is to do with people waking up to the fact that they're effectively illiterate.

I agree entirely that 9 women can't produce a baby in one month, and that hiring 20 random junior devs is not going to make a development task go faster than 5 experienced devs in a decently managed development team.

[jasonlotito]

> I did... the point with people learning to code is precisely not that they're going to get hired to write code (that's what we professionals do).

So then I don't understand the point of your comment, because it's not a response to anything said in the original article. You are responding to Uncle Bob on an issue he does not bring up.

Unless you are referring to the part about code academies, where he says:

"These programs are attracting people to them, and employers, desperate to add developers, are hiring them."

Which flies in the face of what you say in this comment.

So, I don't understand. What are you responding to? Maybe you misunderstood the premise?

[marcus_holmes]

You're right... re-reading it carefully I found I missed the point he was making about companies hiring unskilled developers.

I guess I read the whole article with the mindset that coding is not primarily a commercial activity. Therefore hordes of novices is a great thing, a fantastic thing and his point got a little hard to reach for me because I'm not seeing them as potential hires for a commercial team and all I saw was scathing criticism of newbies.

I've been a big fan of his work on software craftsmanship, something I get completely; it's the difference between a master carpenter and a DIY carpentry enthusiast. Don't let the DIY enthusiast build your house, but don't discourage them either, the world needs their enthusiasm!