[XorNot]

Well it sure as hell is never going to change so long as your only solution is to declare you won't vote because both parties are the same.

You want to change the system? Learn how it works first and stop throwing the problem into the too hard basket.

[itchitawa]

Yes. Americans keep complaining about their government, yet every election they keep on voting for the same party they voted for last time, the same one that already did what the didn't like - or they don't bother. Where I live, people complain that they can't influence politics, they can't even complain about the government online without getting arrested. They don't have voting rights to do anything about it. Americans do! No amount of lobbying can force you to vote for someone you don't want.

[reginaldjcooper]

Your logical fallacy here is that you have no evidence whatsoever that the people complaining are not voting for a third party every time. Perhaps they are, and in fact, it is as ineffectual as they claim.

[XorNot]

Its not about voting for a third party - which is ineffectual. It's about remembering that you have way more elections then just who the president is.

[amagumori]

even ignoring the issues i raised in my original post, another huge problem is the success of propaganda and the polarization of the political landscape. even if the system worked perfectly, a large portion of the population would continue to vote against their self-interest due to propaganda and social conditioning. and the polarization makes it so you can't get people to entertain different views, as they feel that they're getting attacked and "losing the fight" if they change their stance.

[reginaldjcooper]

All the important ones (President, Congress) seem to be based on bipartisan politics. What is left? Voting on propositions?