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by Janteh 4607 days ago
Too bad there are many 'remote but inside the US' jobs posted. Anyone got a clue why that is?
3 comments

Taxes and international payments are a huge pain would be my guess.
Just hire people as contractors and it is extremely easy. They send you invoices periodically, you send them money through regular bank wire transfer.
As far as I can tell, the IRS (US tax collecting agency) requires a tax withholding on anything a US company pays an employee/contractor abroad. By default this is 30%, but if the person in question files US tax returns (despite never setting foot in the country) I think it goes down to 10%, and if the employee's country has a double-taxation agreement with the US, the 10% can be offset against the home income tax. Still, having to deal with that kind of paperwork is a huge burden on both employer and employee. I would not be surprised if this also caused extra hassle when you do visit the US on occasion as they'll assume you're trying to work there illegally.

Of course, making this kind of thing not worth your while is the whole point of protectionism. IIRC, India has a similar arrangement.

One way around this is presumably to open a branch office in another country, and have contractors work for the branch.

As far as I can tell, the IRS (US tax collecting agency) requires a tax withholding on anything a US company pays an employee/contractor abroad

That can't be true for contractors, or sites like Elance and oDesk would not be able to operate as easily as they do. A contractor is responsible for paying his own taxes, whether that is to the IRS in the US, or the tax authority in his own country.

You'd think so. Read up on W-8BEN if you don't believe me. I've been on the receiving end of this for doing a tech review of a book for a major US tech publisher. The amount of paperwork required on my end to satisfy the IRS meant I just gave up and effectively told the publisher to keep the money. (I did it for fun/experience anyway - tech reviewing books isn't a way to make a living.)
You'd think so. Read up on W-8BEN if you don't believe me

You proved my point:

Foreign persons are subject to U.S. income includes: tax at a 30% rate on income they receive from U.S.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf

The burden is on the foreign person, not the US company. The US company can pay you as a contractor and not withhold any tax (just as they could with a US citizen 1099 contractor). The foreign contractor would have to file the W-8BEN (or not, since the US likely can't prosecute offenders in their home country).

If you are employing people, that may be true, but if you're paying a corporation, even if it's a one-person corporation, I can't see why income tax would come into it. It's one company paying another for services. I imagine the parent was thinking of contractor companies, not individual contractors working as short-term employees, in which case income tax wouldn't apply.
If "setting up an offshore subsidiary company for the purposes of employing remote workers" fits your definition of "it's extremely easy", then yes, I can't argue with you.
That's not at all what I was suggesting. I'm not suggesting setting up subsidiaries or anything of the kind.

It's easy to subcontract work out to other countries if you're not tied to the idea of having employees, but instead hire companies (companies which already exist, like say small design shops, packaging firms for apps, or tech firms) to perform services for you, rather than individuals.

Take 37 signals for example, when they were a consulting company. A company in say Paris could have hired them to work remotely, without worrying about paying income tax - that's all handled on the subcontractor end if it is a company.

Mark the tax treaty checkbox on the W8BEN. This solves all issues, assuming that your company is established in a jurisdiction with a tax treaty.
There are limits to how much you can do this as a US-based company, and if you overstep the bounds the IRS will come a-knockin'. I imagine it's much easier to hire someone as a real employee inside the US, and based on the size of many of the companies, they probably don't have the accounting or legal resources necessary to deal with real international employees.
It seems to be a US-only phenomenon. I have yet to see a non-US company which allows remote working and restricts the location within its country.
Certainly possible but remember that "contractor" and "employee" have legal definitions. You can't "just" call an employee (by the legal definition) a contractor.

(Edit: I see ljoshua beat me to the possibility for issues here but it's important to emphasize that it can be done, just play by the rules to avoid trouble down the line.)

Sure, but nothing stops you from having long-term "contractor"-s.
Actually there are. And it would be great if there was just a checklist that you could go against, but the best we've got is this page [1] from the IRS and some legal interpretation. I agree that the positions could more clearly state that it was a contracting position, but it looks like more of an employer-employee type job board than an eLance type deal to me. So they just have to be careful.

[1] http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-%26-Self-Empl...

Employers also want US law on their side in case the employee does something like try to steal from the company.

EDIT: Employees also don't want their home country's protections in case that company in Uzbekistan decides not to pay them.

Probably to ensure a good overlap, timezone-wise. http://jobmote.com usually tags those with 'US-only' or similar.
I like that one better, thank you.

Would be interesting to know if it is because of timezones as West Coast would work very well for me.

How does this site work?

I see no search field. And jobs have no contact field.

my guess it's about timezones and visa. having 3 hours between a coworker and you is not that of a big deal but having 9hours time difference can be quite cumbersome.
Timezone doesn't make sense for Canada and South/Central America. Visa doesn't make much sense either, plenty of startups work with remote workers, no visa needed and for European people they can visit for 3 months with a business visa, nothing required for that, just a valid passport. Also, I have many south american friends who got a visa easily while working for successful startups.