[Stealth-]

As another resident of Canada, I have to completely disagree with you.

I have to pay $20,000 for my schooling. My first nations friends pay nothing, it's covered by tax payers. This includes numerous other benefits that I do not get. In Canada, unfortunately it can often seem like the minority have more privileges. That's not equality, to me.

[shinratdr]

And all they had to do to get that was to be ripped from their homes and placed into residential schools, which existed into the 60s. What a sweet deal!

This smacks of tremendous ignorance of the history of First Nations people and what white Canadians have done to them. It's possibly the most concrete demonstration of white privilege I've ever seen.

"Well gee, I'm just a simple guy, but I don't think trying to balance out the horrible things that people of my race did to people of another race well into the 1900s that irreversibly affected their communities ability to survive is all that fair if I don't get those things too!"

It's all well and good to want a level playing field, but when you've spend the last century digging everyone else into gigantic holes, it kind of rings a little hollow.

[Stealth-]

Growing up in a poorer neighbourhood, the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars.

My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. So I should have less because of what someone with the same skin colour as me did decades ago? Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory?

[shinratdr]

> the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars.

I don't know where you live but in Toronto with the exception of university tuition, all those things are provided for children that can't afford them regardless of their background. The concept of not letting a child go on a field trip or go hungry at lunch because they couldn't afford it is just insane to my ears.

> My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone.

Good thing this has little or nothing to do with punishing the descendants of those who may or may not have perpetrated injustice. It's about providing a leg-up to those that have been held down for decades. You had no such disadvantages so you don't receive the leg up.

> Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory?

Providing benefits to anyone while excluding anyone else is technically discrimination. That's doesn't make it bad. Not all things are equal. It's discrimination that students pay less than you to take the subway. Also discrimination, also not a bad thing.

[canistr]

> I don't know where you live but in Toronto with the exception of university tuition, all those things are provided for children that can't afford them regardless of their background. The concept of not letting a child go on a field trip or go hungry at lunch because they couldn't afford it is just insane to my ears.

As insane as it may sound for a Torontonian, I grew up in Scarborough where many people didn't go on field trips simply because of the cost. Some kids had small lunches. And I grew up in a time where, because of cut backs in education costs, students were required to pay a "course fee" of about $50 at the beginning of the term in high school to pay for additional learning supplies for classes. Which usually amounted to the fee required to print workbooks, provide extra writing materials, or even art supplies.

[cobrausn]

Providing benefits to anyone while excluding anyone else is technically discrimination. That's doesn't make it bad. Not all things are equal. It's discrimination that students pay less than you to take the subway. Also discrimination, also not a bad thing.

Except for that it's discrimination based on need and not race.

[shinratdr]

Sometimes race correlates to need. In the case of First Nations peoples in Canada, it very much does.

[cobrausn]

So, agreeing that race can (in some cases) be a good predictor of need, we can agree that the opposite is not true? Case in point, the OP had need, but got no help because he was the 'wrong' race. If your goal is to create lasting racial division and engender feelings of racial inequality and unfairness, race-based discrimination (in the form of benefits) seems to do the trick - here we are, years later, and it still bothers him.

[king_jester]

> Growing up in a poorer neighbourhood, the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars.

Everyone should have access to these things, that some first nations people got this while you didn't isn't a problem with first nations people, but society at large not caring for its members. Of course, it is important to remember that first nations people experience that lack of care in unique and often violent ways.

> My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. So I should have less because of what someone with the same skin colour as me did decades ago? Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory?

You or your immediate ancestors didn't have to be there to benefit from that past and the situation it fosters today. You frame this as you being targeted to get less, which is really far from the truth about how first nations people live in Canada today. Finally, no you are not being discriminated against, you are benefiting directly and indirectly from past and current colonialist policies in Canada if you are white.

[kyzyl]

> And all they had to do to get that was to be ripped from their homes and placed into residential schools, which existed into the 60s.

Just FYI, the last Canadian residential school closed in... drum roll... 1996. Sweet deal indeed.

[brian_cloutier]

Trust me, I know how you feel. I was a National Merit Semifinalist while my friend with far weaker academics was an Hispanic National Merit Finalist and won a full-ride to her college of choice. As a white male, it was a little annoying going down the list of scholarships and having precious few open to me.

The thing to understand about racism is that it's a societal thing, not an individual thing. Discrimination against an individual can be racist, but only if it contributes to the racism of a society. (I know, the academic usage of "racism" is unfortunately a little different than the colloquial usage)

In your individual case, you might not be as privileged as the students around you, but your race certainly is. I don't know much about Canada, but Native Americans have quantifiably rough lives. On average they make less, are more likely to become alcoholics, and are less likely to make it through college.

It's not about what your ancestors did. People bring that up a lot but you shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of people you never met just because you're related to them. In fact, you aren't held accountable. But you still have to deal with the society we live in as a result of the actions your ancestors took. That society is deeply inequal, and by providing things like scholarships we're accelerating progress in equality that traditionally takes decades to come about.

[victorhn]

Or you could have claimed you are a Hispanic white.

[canistr]

Look, I'm a Canadian myself. I paid the $20,000/year tuition for my schooling too (thank you Waterloo Co-op!). But frankly, it's very easy for the both of us to claim we are deserving of certain privileges or that we worked hard to get where we are based on our own family socio-economic situations.

But the reality is that to get to this point, many immigrant families and first nations families face enormous difficulty to meet their basic needs. To get to this country is one thing, to get here without anything is another. To have everything taken away and having to build it up without a strong support network is difficult. Equality isn't just about the money, it's about the community around you that helps create an environment that allows you to grow and succeed. By just pointing at the price tag, you're oversimplifying so many social factors and issues that play into how you get into university, get out, and start your career path in which, for families coming from difficult situations can simply be solved by some money.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, I am a visible minority myself. I didn't suffer and neither did my parents because the heavy burden was taken care-of by my great-grandparents and grandparents notwithstanding blatant racism by society and even government laws. I'm several generations removed from understanding the economic difficulties, but I'm still very much rooted in the cultural and social ones.

[Stealth-]

My point is that the people that get the benefits are not necessarily the people that need them the most. I've seen many families with status that did not need the money, but took advantage of it. I've also seen many families that needed the money, but could not get it because they were not status.

I completely agree with a support system for people who need it, but I do NOT think that system should be based on racial background.

[canistr]

If you agree, then we should start with the top (e.g. bankers/corporations) who get away with tax loop-holes. And you're mistaking the long-tail of different minorities who face various socio-economic problems with a myopic scenario.