[kubov]

Well, reading that as a 22 years old Polish male gives me mixed feelings. I was living in Poland and studying there for my whole life and basically I have experience basically in whole educational process here (preschool, elementary, gymnasium, high school and now pursuing BS degree at polytechnic) I can definitely say that polish educational system is not that great. Of course we have a lot of people contesting in computer science /maths /physical national Olympic which are very hard contests but it is still very small factor, those kids are often struggling with the same problems you would expect they have (harassment, bullying etc).

Polish educational system (especially nation wide maturity exams after high school and college education) are in my opinion decreasing. The maturity exam is getting easier and easier each year to allow more people just to pass. Sure, life is going to verify that somehow, but it also diminish value of this exam.

In my opinion people that are successful in polish school are only those who decide to not follow teaching process given at school but they work very hard on they own, in my opinion the main problem that is present here (and probably worldwide) is students assessment process, every student is taken to the lowest common denominator when it comes giving grades. People that (in scope of the class room) are doing fine, let's say B grade students think they are doing just fine and there are only few things to improve, similarly A students - they generally tends to think they have already reached the peak, when there is still unbelievable much things to learn.

[CrankyPants]

Thanks for the insight.

Every major publication runs a piece just like this every few years. The exotic countries and methods always differ somewhat, but the formula is always the same. It's the pseudo-intellectual version of the filler/cover-baitait articles on new ways to become heart healthy, or inventions that will change the world, usually done well in advance and saved for slow news-weeks.

Not that the subject matter isn't of value, but it's always oversimplified, and oversold.

[CrankyPants]

Sorry, typed that one out on a touchscreen and blew it. "baitait" = "bait"

[V-2]

The peculiarity of Poland is that so many young people go to university - due to the fact that you don't pay for studying at public universities (well: the tax-payer does), however the majors they choose are the likes of philosophy, sociology, political science etc.

Interesting as these subjects are, they don't give anyone an easy start on a job market as tough as it is in Poland.

And the reality is that 1.5-3 milions (estimations vary) have left for Western Europe (since Poland entered EU in 2004) and Tescos in London can boast having the best educated staff, consisting mostly of graduates.

Even those who stay in Poland often see studying as a way to delay the moment of entering the job market, and this is hardly a surprise, given that this moment is typically unpleasant. By striving for an MA, they get a compelling alibi to be subsidized by their parents for 5 more years.

Many wouldn't educate themselves further if they had a chance of getting a decent job allowing them to move out, pay their bills and live without counting every penny.

[flexie]

Yet, here you are; following a website with a decent intellectual level and without much effort you are participating in discussions in a language that is foreign to you :-)

I have a feeling that although you most likely didn't go to an elite ground school or an elite high school you probably know a second and maybe a third foreign language as well, in high school you could do what Americans would call college level math.

How many Americans know the largest city in Poland? Can they name just 5 European political leaders from the past 100 years?

Don't underestimate the level of average Northern European education. We don't have elite schools, but our basic schools are quite alright.

[V-2]

"How many Americans know the largest city in Poland?" - how many Europeans know on what continent is Mexico located? Or Kazakhstan (one of the 10 largest countries in the world, for that matter)? Or which Korea is which? Or who was who in the Balkan conflict - that's a bloody and recent war right in Europe.

Or does anyone remember that fellow? :) http://youtu.be/SmLwnSXNpFU

Sure that's just a random bloke (what about the public though? What are the odds?), but one could expect members of the parliament to be fairly knowledgeable, at least in the field of politics and current events. Italy: http://www.video.mediaset.it/video/iene/puntata/3673/i-parla... - the journalist asked them some not that tricky questions out of the blue.

They didn't know who Mandela was (or thought he was a president of Brazil), they didn't know what Guantanamo was (and ultimately made a guess it was located in Afganistan). Greenhouse effect? No clue. Darfur? (War in Darfur was the headlines back then). They're stumped. People who do politics for living.

Americans at least seem fond of accusing themselves of ignorance and are quick to acknowledge it, while Europeans, well, kind of do the same thing - in the sense that they eagerly stereotypize Americans as the ignorant ones :)

I'm not American (I'm Polish), but I'm tired of this cliche - whenever I hear someone babbling on about these ignorant Americans, it grinds my gears, not out of love for Americans in particular, just in the same way as all myths, urban legends etc. passed on as facts.

[kubov]

Couldn't agree more. I'm also really tired of Polish people thinking they are superior somehow because Americans don't know who's prime minister of Poland (that's quite common).

I've spent two summers in a row in US, WA area, and I've definitely noticed that US college students are very intelligent and knowledgeable about many things.

I've also spend enough time in Poland noticing many people that are quite opposite of that.

So for summary, labeling people in this way doesn't work very well.

[flexie]

The vast majority of European high school graduates would be able to answer all of those questions you posted.

I am neither Polish, nor American, but I have lived in Northern, Southern and Eastern Europe and in the US and the average American knows much less about Europe than vice versa.

[V-2]

That might be true, but this is not as symmetrical as you're implying - in my opinion. There is simply more to know about Europe, since it's more diverse, has longer history etc. Also, the US happens to be a global superpower (and the only one nowadays) - no wonder it attracts more attention, and we're all naturally subjected to an influx of facts about it - the impact of its popular culture adding to it. It's, at least to an extent, of the same nature as the fact that we discuss in English now, regardless of what out first languages are.

A more balanced question than the one you suggested would be: does an average European know more about Europe than an average American about the US? :) That's closer competition here.

I lived in England for nearly 6 years and I wasn't exactly impressed by how much they know about continental Europe - let alone these parts of Europe that were on the other side of Iron Curtain.

And speaking of Americans, I'm sure that an average - say - Brazilian doesn't really have much of a clue about Europe either, despite Brazil's historical and cultural ties to Europe. Yet noone is talking about typical Brazilian ignorance and we'd forgive this without batting an eye. Why?

Because we usually know just as little about Brazil, so we are prompt to excuse them :) Not so in case of Americans (US citizens). It's the lack of symmetry that bugs people and provokes hostile reactions.