[sneak]

The fact that there are bad actors that game the system does not mean we should not publicize reports of bad behavior.

Rape is, at present, more of a problem to our society than false rape accusations.

Perhaps that will change in the future. I hope it does.

[malandrew]

    Rape is, at present, more of a problem to our society than 
    false rape accusations.

Citation needed. Do the statistics this statement is based on also include prison rape numbers?

[throwaway86]

I really don't want to get pulled into an argument on this because I've said what I mean to say, but your second sentence is really bold.

[steveklabnik]

There is a lot of conflicting research on this, but many reports show that false rape accusations are no more common than false accusations of any other kind of crime.

It's a very difficult topic to study.

[makomk]

There are many reports showing that false rape accusations to the police are no more common than false accusations of any other kind of crime. She didn't go to the police. There could be a vast number of accusations of rape like hers that are, in fact, totally made up and they wouldn't count as accusations for the purposes of those reports.

Which still wouldn't be worth worrying about, especially compared to all the actual rape that is happening, except there's a lot of pressure from certain groups to shun any man who's accused of rape regardless of the merits of the accusation. There's a very vocal school of thought that says if you employ or are friends with one of those men you're a rape apologist.

Though in this case it does sound very much like she was raped and can prove it.

[wilkie]

The fact that you think that statement is bold says a lot about how far we are from solving it and helping people.

[throwaway86]

Rape creates victims. False accusations create victims. Before you say "not the same!" they both often end in suicide.

So, knowing that and knowing how difficult of a topic false accusations are to study and how little we know about the bad side of human beings, I would hope that anybody who is reasonable would read "rape is a bigger deal than false accusations of rape" and say whoa, nelly, partner, do you know something that the rest of us don't or are you acting on your gut feeling? Or are rape victims just the team you happen to root for in the "victims I need to give a shit about" World Series?

The fact that you don't think it's bold reinforces my entire point about concluding things too soon. And I'm intentionally discussing this on a deliberate action that demonstrates that false accusations are easier than ever, given the Internet's (a) reach, (b) accessibility, and (c) slow erosion of doubt in most folks, who make up their minds rather readily on the first thing they see.

[sneak]

It's a bigger deal because of frequency. There are orders of magnitude more rapes than rape accusations, even including legitimate ones.

Rape is endemic in our society.

If you are comparing them 1:1, we can have a discussion, but I am speaking in aggregate.

[throwaway86]

And yet I worry about both because I realize that all victims deserve my sympathy and attention, regardless of how they were made a victim or whether there is enough of them to justify me giving them a second thought. And I'm saying that the blogging response to the one you do care about might be having unintentional consequences for the other that you don't care about, and advising caution on an obviously explosive subject for the sake of both problems.

Look, it's your prerogative to dismiss victims of false accusation. It's even your prerogative to condescendingly dismiss me from the discussion as you are doing here. It's my prerogative to care about the things you don't, and by dismissing a problem due to frequency, you are no better than the people that dismiss rape in the industry. Can you really not see that?

I already made clear that I do not want to argue about this. I'm simply uninterested in your opinion on false accusation victimhood because based on how dismissive you are of it, you haven't been paying attention and you haven't had it hit close to home. I've been in a similar situation that resulted in my life being threatened at a conference. I know how victims of rape feel, having to sit on HN and keep reminding people that rape really is a problem and shouldn't be dismissed, because here I am debating false accusation victimhood with some random on HN.

[wilkie]

In what you are arguing, you fail to realize that there is only one victim. And while that might be the accused, in this case where we have 3 accounts supporting the accuser... well... it's not wrong to side with either of them, but you can't really call out supporting her side as biased in any way.

[justin66]

I've floated this question in two other places, but I'll try again here.

> False accusations create victims.

This is almost certainly not a false accusation since Justine has multiple eyewitnesses, two of whom have confirmed her story on their blogs.

Why are you bringing up the problem of false accusations?

edit: I really am interested in your answer, more so now that you responded but failed to answer. Rereading the post I think you're referring to didn't really help.

[throwaway86]

I can count on one hand the number of times you need to click "parent" to read my original thesis that made this point. I didn't make the point until the latter half, and I appreciate that it is revealing the folks that pick what they want out of a comment.