[ryandrake]

I once worked with a founder who would always pull that kind of garbage: "I wrote [simple software with no dependencies or integration requirements] in [N] days! Why is it taking you guys [M] months to write [complex software relying on several 1st and 3rd party libraries, a component that needs to work within a large, old legacy system]?

Good on the develop manager!

[teddyh]

There was once a programmer who was attached to the court of the warlord of Wu. The warlord asked the programmer: “Which is easier to design: an accounting package or an operating system?”

“An operating system,” replied the programmer.

The warlord uttered an exclamation of disbelief.

“Surely an accounting package is trivial next to the complexity of an operating system,” he said.

“Not so,” said the programmer, “when designing an accounting package, the programmer operates as a mediator between people having different ideas: how it must operate, how its reports must appear, and how it must conform to tax laws.

By contrast, an operating system is not limited by outward appearances. When designing an operating system, the programmer seeks the simplest harmony between machine and ideas. This is why an operating system is easier to design.”

The warlord of Wu nodded and smiled. “That is all good and well,” he said, “but which is easier to debug?”

The programmer made no reply.

— The Tao of Programming, Geoffrey James

[iSnow]

I believe the developers working on Windows Vista, Copland, Taligent and GNU/Hurd would like to have a word with Mr. James.

[antimagic]

Heh, reminds me of a boss that criticised my work a few months back: Boss: "Hey antimagic, why haven't you finished that module yet?" Me: because the code it's interfacing to is a big ball of spaghetti (paraphrasing, because it was the boss in question's code - so I was much more diplomatic) Boss: "You need to learn to be able to work with other people's code better - I can get in and modify your code easily" Me: <stare at boss waiting for penny to drop> ... 30 seconds later after no reaction... Me: Yes, I do write fairly clean code. Thank you for noticing.

[talmand]

I love it when someone's attempt at insulting you and complementing themselves results in the opposite of their intent. But is it more satisfying when they realize it or are unaware?

[mkramlich]

Also I've generally found it's easier to develop starting with a blank directory tree (no code), than to inherit a legacy codebase, have to make the sometimes grueling time/energy/focus/trial-and-error investment needed to come up to speed on it, understanding-wise, at the fine-grained level of detail you need to code confidently, then, figure out how to make a positive change that doesn't make some other thing worse. (And it's harder if no automated tests or documented manual test plan.) I call it OPC for Other People's Code. One of the anti-patterns of software engineering. It's distinct from NIH (Not Invented Here), which is another anti-pattern.

[vinceguidry]

Of course it's always easier. The question is, can the business afford to wait while you greenfield another app? Usually it can't. That's why refactoring.

First step is fixing the development environment / build process and getting a staging server up. It will inevitably be broken / nonexistent, with frequent edits directly to production necessary. The last guy will have internalized a great deal of operational workarounds that you'll need to rediscover then codify into the app.

Next you write tests. There will be none. Once you have a workflow that is decent, you can start to identify the worst offenders. All the while, you'll be having to change the codebase to meet project requirements, this will give you a good idea of where the really bad shit is. Unit test all of it, and if you're feeling froggy, write some integration tests. Once you get to this phase, you should be unit testing your project work.

Only after those two are completed can you start refactoring. Treat it like TDD. Keep an eye on larger goals like 12 factor conformance. It may look pie-in-the sky at first, but it will give you ideas on what to focus on. Main advantage of refactoring over ground-up re-writing is, you don't have to sell it to your boss. You just do it, in and around normal project work.

The biggest hurdle is the first step. It's scary to fuck with deployment. The approach I've come up with is to fork the codebase and rebuild the tooling on top of that, deploying first to staging, then to production, alongside the current working copies. Once you're satisfied flip the switch. You may have to flip it back, but at least it will be easy and instantaneous.

These lessons are from my ongoing project to modernize an ancient Rails 2.3.5 website running on Debian Lenny. Linode doesn't even offer that OS anymore, I had to cannibalize a server with an EOL app on it for a staging environment. I can't use Vagrant because there aren't any Lenny boxes.

It's long, arduous and slow. I fucking love it.

[vinceguidry]

http://12factor.net/

[rjbwork]

What do you do when management won't allow Unit/Automated testing because it takes time away from writing user facing code?

[vinceguidry]

Do it anyway. The thing about testing is that it's a skill that you have to work on. You have to know what to test and how. Testing shouldn't affect the speed at which you write code at all.

The reason your boss is saying no is because you had to ask him. The reason you had to ask them is because you know it will take more time than it will save, at least at first.

You have to learn this skill somehow, and the best way to do it is on something that matters rather than with a side project. So write tests at your job, and learn the skill of testing on your employer's time, without their knowledge. Or on off hours if that makes you squeamish. But learn the skill, it's important.

Then, when you refine your testing work flow to the point where it makes more sense to test as you write, don't bother hiding it anymore. When they ask, show them your workflow and how it's not taking up too much time and list out the benefits of testing. If they tell you to stop anyway, take your new skills and find a new job. You're growing past the ability of your current job to challenge you.

[ramses0]

Can you explain or give some links on "12-Factor Conformance"? I did a few quick searches and nothing popped up.

[pg]

Please don't sign your comments. (http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)