[belorn]

So the congress invites someone, and the NSA branch steps in to block it by censoring the speaker at the border.

I wonder whats next in this hollywood movie. Drone strike in central london to take out an embassy? A firewall blockade directed at news paper articles? Secret kill lists and torture?

Maybe someone should sneak a telepresence robot to congress, give it a dark trench coat and a code name. This is Truth Teller congress members, let the robot speak!

[kybernetyk]

> the congress

No, not THE congress. The original article means a convention/conference.

[belorn]

Thank you. Still a bit of an movie plot move, but slightly less so than if it had been the congress.

I guess visiting speakers should always have a backup plan, and be able to do a video conference stream from the airport directly to the conference. That is if they are allowed to keep their electronics equipment intact at the border, which I guess is doubtful. Maybe a prerecorded speech?

[CaptainZapp]

Or maybe organize your convention in a country that doesn't pull such shenanigans, just because they don't like the speaker?

In the long term moves like this can't be good for the US.

[sanderjd]

As a U.S. citizen, this is actually my biggest concern - this is all going to hurt us economically. Of course most people will think it is Snowden's fault for making it known, rather than the government's fault for doing it.

[tripzilch]

> As a U.S. citizen, this is actually my biggest concern - this is all going to hurt us economically.

Of course it is. Always the effect on you "as a US Citizen". Because that's the only way you can think. What about the rest of the World?

Are you not a "World citizen" too?

Think about this for a moment. Is your economy really your biggest concern? What is the US doing to the rest of the world? Do you disapprove of this behaviour just because of the effect it might have on you, economically? Of course it is a reason, but is it really the first and foremost reason? When you look at it in the light of what the US is actually doing in your name?

You do realize that when you write things like this you post them in front of an international audience, right?

I'm not singling you out, I see this attitude everywhere. In particular in regard to the blatant spying and thrashing of our privacy. If it's your privacy it is an outrage, if it's everybody else's privacy it is "expected".

I just can't understand this attitude. If my country would be engaging in such behaviour, in my name, I would strongly denounce it because it is wrong to treat people like this regardless of where they live! Sure I might think "huh this could be bad for trade-relations of the Netherlands, and we're a trade country", but not for a single moment would I consider this a major reason to fault those actions. It is wrong because you should not treat people that way.

Like, what you just said is basically, if this couldn't hurt you economically, it would be much less of a concern to you. Because economically is your biggest concern. So all the other concerns must be so much smaller.

Hm.

How nice.

Say that to my face?

[sanderjd]

First of all, no, saying something is my biggest concern does not imply that barring it this would all be "much less of a concern" because all other things are "so much smaller" concerns. Those conclusions simply don't follow from what I said.

The rest of your points are pretty good and they are well taken. It is possible that U.S. citizens generally view ourselves less as "World citizens" than we should. For me, personally, I feel like this is because we have (largely through our own past mistakes!) made many enemies throughout the world, and I struggle to feel like there is any useful world citizenship that includes both me and those enemies. So yes, it royally pisses me off that you in the Netherlands are being spied on, and that German writers are being mistreated, and that European embassies are being bugged, all in my name, but no, it really doesn't bother me that we are spying on the North Koreans. I'm mad that we don't seem to know our friends from our enemies and are embarrassing ourselves by just drag-netting everything, but from a legal standpoint, within my own government, I think there is a useful line between U.S. citizens, and non-citizens.

For what it's worth, I absolutely think that I belong on the other side of that line for you in the Netherlands, and if I found out your government was spying on me, I would be more upset with my own government for failing to protect me than with your government for the spying.

I'm sure none of that made you like me or other Americans any more, which bums me out, and I wish there were a big happy World family for me to feel a part of, but as far as I can tell, there isn't.

[gbsi]

A secondary plan is definitely a possibility, but should by no means constitute a viable alternative in a free democracy.

[vinceguidry]

One should refer to the US federal legislative body as "Congress"; capitalized and without 'the'.

States each have their own legislatures and can be referred to as "the state legislature of X" or "X state legislature". But they all have their own names, New York's is called the New York State Assembly. California simply calls theirs the California State Legislature. Either way works.

[chopin]

>I wonder whats next in this hollywood movie...Secret kill lists and torture?

That's already the case...

[captainmuon]

Well, not the congress, just a conference, but still...

[mathattack]

Is this a case of incompetence at the junior levels or conspiracy at the senior? We tend to blame the latter, when it's frequently the former. (The folks at the airline terminal seem to be too incompetent to be entrusted with any kind of grand plan.)

[pjc50]

Well, they've already managed to shut down the government..