[rusureabouthtat]

>Several high quality incubators. NDRC, Wayra

I really wanted to believe this but after spending a good 15 minutes trawling through both of those incubator's portfolios, I'm left with the inescapable feeling that they're simply well polished investor fleecing vehicles with a specialization in putting lipstick on pigs...

How are any of these "startups" remotely likely to make any kind of respectable return for an incubator (and by extension the poor investors that have bankrolled it)?

http://wayra.org/en/startup/naymit?field_startup_area_del_pr...

http://www.ndrc.ie/projects/gotcha-ninjas/

http://www.ndrc.ie/projects/sneaky-vegetables/

http://www.ndrc.ie/projects/fred/

http://www.ndrc.ie/projects/busy-moos/

Color me very sceptical..

[EamonLeonard]

Throwaway comment from a throwaway account. Stay classy.

Two obvious statements:

The vast majority of startups (incubated or otherwise) either fail, or plateau without giving a "respectable return".

Investment, regardless of the stage is risky.

[rusureabouthtat]

Yes, those are very obvious statements.

I might add a third: if an "incubator" is peddling investment opportunities off the back of such an obviously sub prime portfolio, wise money should stay well away as should wise startups.

[EamonLeonard]

Sounds like you have an axe to grind.

[rusureabouthtat]

Yes, it upsets me watching the startup scene slowly mutate in to a cheap, low budget facsimile of the financial crisis. Fast money from naive investors, cynical players and unlimited wet behind the ears 20 somethings used to be the sole preserve of the financial industry.

Sadly, the same rot seems to be spreading to the tech industry and, if left unchecked, I fear will one day soon result in our own subprime/CDO style watershed moment. If (when?) that happens, it will make it a lot harder for honest/sensbile startups to attract the investment they need.

[EamonLeonard]

"Honest startups"? Have you lost money yourself? You seem really bitter about this.

Sensible startups will never have a problem raising money, that's if they even need it. A lack of local funding does not mean that funding cannot be secured from sources outside Ireland -- plenty of Irish startups have done that btw.

I think your view of what's going on in Ireland is tainted, and it's not the same as the property boom or the financial crisis associated with it.

For one thing, there is no "startup boom" in Ireland. At least not in the same way as there was in property. The level of investment isn't even in the same ball park. Most startups can't even get a bank loan of a few grand, for starters. And banks are not cozying up to founders in the same way they did to property developers.

There are no dodgy dealings going on behind closed doors, and no one has the ear of a Minister.

You're not going to see your average taxi driver borrow to invest in a startup because he's suddenly rich on paper.

And unlike the finite amount of land available to develop in places like Dublin, there are no such constraints on good business models, with good market potential, backed by a strong team.

Also, I don't remember there ever being a property "scene".

What we need is a healthy startup ecosystem. I've been active in the "startup scene" since 2007. I've seen the growth of startups, I've seen the rise of a strong tech community, I've seen the rise of all the accelerators. The level of investment has risen, but not at the same pace or scale. These are some of the necessary component for a healthy ecosystem.

And like in nature-based ecosystems, things die to make way for new lifeforms.

Anyway, I'm rambling now... need coffee :)

Your view is your view, but I don't see things the way you've painted them.