[JackMorgan]

> There is a vast difference between someone who cares about doing their job well and someone who does their job.

I like this as a definition of cultural fit. I have worked a place where I felt like the only guy who cared about his job, and it was suffocating, similarly, I have seen the one guy who is just doing his job in a team of those to love to do their job well, and he was like a ball and chain.

Perhaps we need to stop using "cultural fit", as a replacement for "professionalism". When I think about "cultural fit", I think, "what do I like, and does this person like it too?" When I ask myself and others, "is this person a professional", I think, "do they exhibit: passion, discipline, dedication, drive, and care in their work, skills, and interactions with everyone?" I would rather tell HR, "not as professional about his craft as we like to see", than a wishy-washy, "not a good cultural fit". The first sounds like we are professionals who treat ourselves, our craft, and others with respect, the second like a frat house blackballing a pledge because he doesn't like the same beer we all do.

[dustingetz]

"no cultural fit" is a HR euphemism for either "you aren't good enough" or "you're fired" at facebook, at least according to a few HN comments. Similarly, at google, "performance improvement plan" means "we don't want to get sued, but please find a new job"

[derefr]

This definition (caring about doing your job) is a bit annoying, because it means it's sort of impossible to work at any company that looks for this, while also trying to start your own company. All my passion is reserved for my start-up; you get my professionalism, but nothing more. Why is that not enough? (This is assuming salary and no equity.)

[JackMorgan]

In my opinion, someone who does their job well and professionally is just fine to work on side-projects. Ideally, your productivity and focus stays the same as they did before your side-project.

I truly do not think it makes sense to demand every person on a job is passionate about the job they are doing. There have been many times I have had to (even at a job I normally loved) do long, boring, and fruitless work. I did not do them out of my passion for the "Mission to Save the World of Enterprise Banking", but because I am a professional who does what needs to be done and who does it to the best of my abilities.

When I said passion before, I was trying to express two things.

First, I was intending to express the attitudes that cause someone to stay abreast of their field, keeps their own saws sharp, (and ideally helps teach/inspire others to do the same), comes in and works hard, and pushes themselves and those around them to be better. Perhaps the best word for that is just professionalism.

The second concept is that I would rather be around someone who, while acting like a consummate professional, also enjoys at least some part of it. I love the fact that software development has more than I could probably ever learn, and it is a worthy challenge to seek to master its different forms. I have worked with several professionals who really do enjoy parts of the craft that I only barely tolerate, and I enjoy that about them immensely. They open to me a new worlds of appreciation for the craft. Just recently, I had to work on a few hundred legacy bugs for a few weeks in a row. They were unexpected, not caused by me, and deeply tedious. Some took hours to locate the cause. One of my coworkers really came alive doing that. He just loved the hunt and chase, like a detective working out a mystery. While I was mentally moaning and groaning after week two, he was just getting started. We talked about it for a few minutes one day, and I decided to try and see things his way. While it didn't cause me to love bugs like a fine wine, I was able to bring my attitude around from a silent scream up to mildly interested. Maybe the best word for that is having a good attitude? Enjoys some parts more than others, and keeps quiet when they don't enjoy it? I am not sure, but that whole concept I find to be important. The person who reads books about development and enjoys reading them is going to bring a wonderful attitude to the team, and can motivate others to pursue their own interests.

[jasonlotito]

I think it's fair. You are planning to leave, after all. You are actively working toward it. People hiring want to find someone they can rely on. Not someone who is striving to leave as soon as possible (from their perspective).

> Why is that not enough?

Because they can find someone with the same qualifications that will also bring that passion.