[Steko]

"replaced with Lenovo kit as it's possible to strip it down and replace anything."

Spoiler Alert: Lenovo Ultrabooks have glued in batteries. In fact the Ultrabooks from almost every company (HP, Samsung, Dell, Toshiba, Asus, Lenovo, Acer) have glued in batteries. This is because glued in batteries are a useful innovation.

[harrytuttle]

Yeah I know that. I buy T-series. No glue.

They're not a useful innovation - they are an abhorrent consumerist "disposalism" decision to pump sales, a safety nightmare (isolate it? nope), purely a cost cutting exercise for the manufacturer and make it even harder to recycle the nasty chemicals.

Don't give me the shit about it allowing smaller devices to be made either. You can make smaller devices with removable batteries fine.

I'm a qualified EE for ref.

[Osmium]

Just playing Devil's advocate... (because I happen to agree with you that batteries should be user-replaceable, especially with phone battery life as bad as it is)

> I've just replaced the battery on my Lumia 820 after 9 months.

If your Lumia's battery needed to be replaced after 9 months, it was already under warranty and should have been replaced by the manufacturer.

> a safety nightmare

You know what's also a safety nightmare? Batteries. Which is why stopping third-parties from replacing certified batteries with random bought-off-eBay batteries is definitely a good idea.

> purely a cost cutting exercise for the manufacturer and make it even harder to recycle the nasty chemicals

Apple does have a recycling programme where you can bring your old electronics for free (and they'll even pay you for it with some products). http://www.apple.com/recycling/

As for the glue itself, I imagine it's trivially removable by qualified techs (there's probably a solvent that brings it right up?). And the excessive amount we're seeing now could be equally due to initial assembly issues (c.f. thermal paste a few years back) as much as any conscious decision.

I would definitely be interested in hearing more about why glue is bad though!

[harrytuttle]

> If your Lumia's battery needed to be replaced after 9 months, it was already under warranty and should have been replaced by the manufacturer.

It was. Nokia service sent me a new one out for nothing after a 5 minute phone call.

> You know what's also a safety nightmare? Batteries. Which is why stopping third-parties from replacing certified batteries with random bought-off-eBay batteries is definitely a good idea.

The problem is more power isolation. If you get a short when you damage the device etc (compression/impact/waterlogging), your typical LiPoly cell is going to catch fire or at least knock out extremes of heat. This is very hazardous. Removal batteries at least have a chance of power isolation.

My specific example here is my 2010 MBP which the battery was not glued (but inaccessible). This got waterlogged after a drink was spilled on the table. Turning it upside down revealed that capillary action around the base plate had sucked up the water. It rained on the logic board. About 30 seconds later, it caught fire. My only resort was to throw it in the garden and watch my £1249 investment burn up.

> Apple does have a recycling programme where you can bring your old electronics for free

Yes they do but perhaps if you could replace the battery out of warranty, you wouldn't need to recycle it :)

[arrrg]

Apple will replace the battery out of warranty no problem. Their laptop batteries are competitively priced (no idea about the iPhones), i.e. replacing the rMBP battery costs $199 (including labor), a comparable battery from Lenovo for T-series laptops costs $179.

[harrytuttle]

Well it's not comparable. I'm sitting on a new 9-cell that cost me $129 equivalent and has 8.5 hours left :)

When that runs out, I can take it out and stick the other one in out of my bag.

[harrytuttle]

Downvoted by an Apple fanboy no doubt!

[ollie87]

Well since you're in the UK EU law applies and you get a 2 year warranty on all the Apple stuff you buy. They just keep it on the down-low. Two years is a reasonable life for a device now I reckon before trading up.

[harrytuttle]

My main machine is a Lenovo T61 manufactured in 2006. My backup machine is a T400 from 2009. I have an HP48 manufactured in the mid 1990's still. All work perfectly.

2 years is taking the piss. Seriously. I feel people have been programmed into thinking this is acceptable.

[ollie87]

I still have a MacBook from 2006 that's still ticking along fine, naturally it's no longer my main machine. Stuff is gonna fail, and as it ages it's more likely to fail. You could increase the length of warranties but all you end up doing is passing the cost to the end user any way with bumped up prices. I think two years is acceptable. After three years spares for stuff like iPhones/iPads and MacBooks are cheap as dirt on eBay anyway. So repairs are usually easy (people have learned how to do it) and cheap. Also usually if it fails after 2 years I reckon that's probably more down to abuse any way. I know plenty of people who have more money than sense when it comes to looking after their equipment, I had an ex kill a plastic MacBook my continually using it on her bed, it blocked the vents and the thing would cook.

[Someone]

"As for the glue itself, I imagine it's trivially removable by qualified techs (there's probably a solvent that brings it right up?)"

iFixit even mentions their product for doing that using heat for the iPad: http://www.ifixit.com/Tools/iOpener/IF145-198.

Will that work for the iPhone 5? My guess would be "yes". If not, someone will have to find another solution (I guess this knowledge leaks from Apple's repair technicians). I would try cold before I started messing with chemicals.

If it turns out to be not that hard to remove the battery, once you know how, the root of the complaint is "Apple does not tell us how to take apart their stuff, and puts stuff together really tight." The latter is one of the reasons people buy Apple stuff; the former is not something Apple is unique in.

[Steko]

"I buy T-series. No glue."

I respect your preferences but the bottom line is this:

When Apple dropped the MacBook Air to $999 in 2010 to match the price point of the MacBook, they gave users a clear choice: the thin, light, and un-upgradeable MacBook Air or the heavier, longer lasting, more rugged, and more powerful MacBook. Same price, two very different products. At the time, I wasn’t very happy with the non-upgradeable RAM on the MacBook Air, but I respected that Apple had given their users a choice. It was up to us: Did we want a machine that would be stuck with 2GB of RAM forever? Would we support laptops that required replacement every year or two as applications required more memory and batteries atrophied?

Apple has presented the market with a choice. They have two professional laptops: one that is serviceable and upgradeable, and one that is not.

Consumers overwhelmingly voted yes, and the Air grew to take 40 percent of Apple’s notebook sales by the end of 2010.

That's from Kyle Weins, founder of iFixit.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/opinion-apple-retina-...

"not a useful innovation ... Don't give me the shit about it allowing smaller devices ... I'm a qualified EE for ref."

I'm certainly not an EE but I'm sure some of the people that design Ultrabooks for Apple, HP, Samsung, Dell, Toshiba, Asus, Lenovo and Acer are. The guy from iFixit above certainly doesn't question that the glue and solder allow for thinner devices to be made.

[MHordecki]

> This is because glued in batteries are a useful innovation.

Please explain (I'm honestly curious, having no experience in EE).