[agentultra]

It's scary that they don't care but not surprising. We live in a world where the majority of people with privilege are comfortable with the fact that racial profiling still pervades the criminal justice system. In fact, such a statement will be viewed as controversial and debate will be diluted by meaningless argument about whether racial profiling exists or whether the use of the term, "privilege," is even fair. Privacy, I believe, faces the same conundrum: it's a problem but the consequences of it are so divorced from the individual that most people won't even think about it.

The rub for me is not that some NSA goon could snoop on where my gaming group is meeting up next week. It's that they could use the scale of their surveillance powers to profile and target groups of individuals in much finer strokes. They don't need to mobilize a state police force to stop random persons and check their papers anymore. It's much more quiet now and less noticeable. We can let our imaginations run rampant about what they could do with this information but I think there's evidence of what they do use it for already and the reality is often much more frightening because it seems so benign.

[ewams]

Please explain what "the reality" is in regards for what they use it for that is more frightening.

[agentultra]

From: http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/speeches_testimonies/2...

     When conducting 702 FISA surveillance, the only information NSA obtains results from the use of specific identifiers (for example email addresses and telephone numbers) used by non-U.S. persons overseas who are believed to possess or receive foreign intelligence information.
     
     Foreign terrorists sometimes communicate with persons in the U.S. or Americans overseas. In targeting a terrorist overseas who is not a U.S. person, NSA may get both sides of a communication. If that communication involves a U.S. person, NSA must follow Attorney General protects the privacy of U.S. persons.

     The collection under FISA section 702 is the most significant tool in the NSA collection arsenal for the detection, identification, and disruption of terrorist threats to the U.S. and around the world.

It's probably all true. I'd wager the majority of information gathered from surveillance activities under the FISA is to spoil terrorist threats against the U.S. However denials like this have a way of avoiding the definition of, "terrorist threat," or explaining the scope and restrictions the information so gathered must be used.

I suspect they might use the aforementioned section of the FISA to enable the extradition and persecution of whistle-blowers as terrorists. This would allow them to black-van these people and remove them from the world. However one can only speculate that this is true. And therein, in my opinion, lies the danger.

Edit formatting issues...

[x0x0]

   echo "my quote" | fold -s -w 77 | sed "s/^/   /"

append pbcopy if on a mac: echo "my quote" | fold -s -w 77 | sed "s/^/ /" | pbcopy

   When conducting 702 FISA surveillance, the only information NSA obtains 
   results from the use of specific identifiers (for example email addresses 
   and telephone numbers) used by non-U.S. persons overseas who are believed to 
   possess or receive foreign intelligence information.
        
        Foreign terrorists sometimes communicate with persons in the U.S. or 
   Americans overseas. In targeting a terrorist overseas who is not a U.S. 
   person, NSA may get both sides of a communication. If that communication 
   involves a U.S. person, NSA must follow Attorney General protects the 
   privacy of U.S. persons.
   
        The collection under FISA section 702 is the most significant tool in 
   the NSA collection arsenal for the detection, identification, and disruption 
   of terrorist threats to the U.S. and around the world.

also, to address the lies you're spreading:

I have no idea about 702 fisa surveillance, but what we do know is:

1 - the nsa collects intelligence

2 - if you, as an american, communicated with a foreigner, you're fair game.

2b - if you, as an american, communicated with an american who communicated with a foreigner, the nsa collects your communications.

2c - if you, as an american, communicated with an american who communicated with an american who communicated with a foreigner... the nsa collects your communications.

2d - why yes, if you're observant, you might think this is virtually every american.

3 - if they accidentally collected your, as an american, communications, they keep it. "Accidentally".

4 - since all pigs are liars, they distribute this to, amongst others, the irs and the dea, along with a guide to whitewashing where the information came from. So the dea can, what do you know, pull over a random van for a busted tail light or not signaling a lane change or signaling a lane change to early or just cause they feel like it -- there is always, 100% of the time, a reason for a cop to pull over a car if they want to. Then they randomly find drugs! Who knew, must be just a coincidence! [1]

   The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to recreate the 
   investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information 
   originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's 
   Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an 
   investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of 
   exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or 
   biased witnesses.
   
   I have never heard of anything like this at all, said Nancy Gertner, a 
   Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 
   2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling 
   than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been 
   collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping 
   terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.
   
   It is one thing to create special rules for national security, Gertner said. 
   Ordinary crime is entirely different. It sounds like they are phonying up 
   investigations. [1]

5 - yes, regarding #4, all pigs are liars, and this would be lying directly to the court. Not that they will be prosecuted for it.

6 - since this already migrated from "omg terrarism" to drugs, you may wonder where it will end. tip: it won't just be with drugs, it never is.

[1] http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-u-directs-agents-cover-progr...