[saurik]

I think it's more like saying that "putting in fewer calories than you burn" is not actionable advice as the things you eat affect what is burned and what it does, and why you do anything at all. If you want to contribute to less air pollution: wear a jacket and a hat on cold days, and wear a thin t-shirt and shorts on warm ones; this is simple advice that will cause you to not keep messing with thermostats to feel comfortable, using less electricity and gas. In contrast, the "simplest" advice to "use less fuel" is going to cause you to sit there cold and sad while you try to force yourself to not mess with the thermostat; maybe you figure out the jacket thing, maybe you don't: it wasn't really useful advice, and it required willpower. If I want to burn more calories than I metabolize, I can either force myself to be hungry all the time (which might have negative ramifications), or I can eat foods that are more likely to provide bioavailable energy over longer periods of time that are less likely to turn rapidly into fat due to resulting insulin spikes: I will then be less hungry, and I will eat less without even realizing it <- that's "more complex", sure, but it is in another way "much easier", as changing what you eat can be easier than insisting that you have to eat less and go without something your body is demanding.

[grecy]

> I think it's more like saying that "putting in fewer calories than you burn" is not actionable advice

It's extremely actionable, and I've seen it work for hundreds and hundreds of people (I attended Weight Watchers to support my roommates. Both of them went on to become WW leaders, and I made so many good friends there I kept going back year after year. I have personally been involved in the lives of well over 500 people losing well over 100lbs each)

> as changing what you eat can be easier than insisting that you have to eat less and go without something your body is demanding.

I never said anything about eating less. You miss read.

[saurik]

>> I think it's more like saying that "putting in fewer calories than you burn" is not actionable advice

> It's extremely actionable ...

There is no clear-cut action from that optimization request. In comparison, "eat less" or "eat different in this specific way" are examples of things that are actionable.

> and I've seen it work for hundreds and hundreds of people (I attended Weight Watchers to support my roommates. Both of them went on to become WW leaders, and I made so many good friends there I kept going back year after year. I have personally been involved in the lives of well over 500 people losing well over 100lbs each)

This means that it is "effective", not that it is "actionable".

>> as changing what you eat can be easier than insisting that you have to eat less and go without something your body is demanding.

> I never said anything about eating less. You miss read.

Well, now it isn't clear what you mean at all, because you've said you advocate Weight Watchers while also advocating a simple belief that "it's physically impossible for a body to gain weight if it's burning more calories than it's using". The people at Weight Watchers are very clear that "we know that a calorie isn’t just a calorie": they advocate modifications in the kinds of things that you eat and the way you live your life that will lead to a healthier body and, as a side effect, weight loss; in the process, they have a fairly complex equation that assigns "points" to different food items based on a bunch of different quantifiable metrics. This is exactly the kind of "too complicated" advice that you complained at glaugh about.

[grecy]

>> I never said anything about eating less. You miss read.

>Well, now it isn't clear what you mean at all, because you've said you advocate Weight Watchers while also advocating a simple belief that "it's physically impossible for a body to gain weight if it's burning more calories than it's using". The people at Weight Watchers are very clear that "we know that a calorie isn’t just a calorie": they advocate modifications in the kinds of things that you eat and the way you live your life that will lead to a healthier body and, as a side effect, weight loss; in the process, they have a fairly complex equation that assigns "points" to different food items based on a bunch of different quantifiable metrics. This is exactly the kind of "too complicated" advice that you complained at glaugh about.

You know what the complicated formula is? calories/50.

(Full disclosure: It has some very tiny adjustments if it has too much fat it gets an extra 1/2 point.. lots of fiber gets -1/2 point.)

You wanna know how well this works? I've seen people eat their daily points intake by eating nothing other than Big Macs (for most people it's around 4 daily). I've also seen a guy eat nothing other than chips and beer, but not go over his points.

They all lost weight, because they ate less calories than they used, which the WW points system is all about.

As I said, I've seen hundreds of people lose staggering amounts of weight, and I've never seen a single person that didn't lose weight when they ate less calories than they used. It never made a lick of difference what they ate, only the amount of calories they consumed.